The PvE vs PvP Thread
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Over the past few weeks, I've seen a lot of discussions pop up about PvE vs PvP. Unfortunately, this discussion is currently taking place in the thread about goldsellers and DDoS attacks, which is not exactly about PvE vs PvP. :slight_frown: That's why I've decided to move this discussion to a new thread.
In addition to that, I would like to clear up a few misconceptions that popped up during those discussions.
Is Fractured a PvE or PvP game?
Fractured is both! The developers want Fractured to appeal to wide range of players, including players who are interested in PvE. Fractured will have PvE content like dungeons and recurring PvE events.Can Demons raid Arboreus?
https://fracturedmmo.com/feature-spotlight-6-pvp-alignment-crime/
Also, I would like to highlight a post written by Prometheus about this subject:
Thanks for starting this thread @Logain, we've been following it with a lot of interest. I see it mostly evolved into a PvP vs PvE discussion, which seems to be very frequent on the forums these days - so I'll address that specifically.
We are deeply convinced we can make the PvE and PvP crowds coexist in Fractured. In fact, we could call that one of the design pillars of the game itself!
Historically, several MMOs just launched separate servers with different rulesets to address the issue. Others have gone for a level-base split - low level areas are protected, high level areas feature FFA PvP (perhaps with some mid-ground in between). Albion Online is a good example of the latter.
The Albion approach helps with new player retention, but in the end if you hate PvP you're going to quit, since you can only progress up to a point.
In Fractured, if you like only PvE, you have a home for yourself (Arboreus) that features areas that are entirely PvE-only, and the rest where hostile PvP is still seriously restricted. You won't get murdered when you're a new player, and you'll be largely able to avoid it after and still progress, since resources on Arboreus are not weaker nor stronger than in Syndesia or Tartaros - they're just different.
Of course, I realize this answer is not explaining much, so it might be a good thing to anticipate the Spotlight on the justice system and PvP rules (which is already planned), since I can't explain it all in just one forum post.
That being said, Fractured is still a sandbox MMO - you won't have a questline to follow, you won't be spoon-fed the content of the game, crafting, trading and building are a huge part of the Fractured experience - easily more than PvE, if one wants to - and so on. If someone is looking for the new WoW, he won't find it here :slight_smile:
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@finland said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@logain said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@finland said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@logain the only real way (...)
You haven't refuted any of the points in my suggestion before your claim that I am completely wrong. As I've stated my point and stance on the subject of the developers selling gold, there's hardly any reason for me to post if there's no real discussion with valid argumentation, so I'm going to vanish from this thread and hope for the developers to keep their vision and word on only selling cosmetic items.
Dude I told many times what's going to happen with a full pvp open world without restrictions. My vision comes from years spent on other games. But hey! Everyone has their own vision, I just don't like your. Devs have to care about 2 things only when they are going to find a solution to stop gold sellers (avoiding ddos throubles):
- pvp. So don't find a solution that facilitates pvp
- merchant players. So find a solution to avoid player becoming so reach to sell gold.
Sincerely, my vision, your vision, @Logain 's vision is unimportant. The devs seem to have a vision and the devs are making a heavy pvp focused/oriented game.
The demon planet will be full of pvp and lawless pvp at that. I can totally imagine it having full loot privileges. And I can totally imagine this element to be restricted to the demon planet and not the human planet.
The human planet will have pvp, but it will be "lawful" and there will be a "justice system", for which we don't know much more. We can assume that some kind of Karma system will be implemented, although other novel and interesting ideas have been proposed at the forum.
Although the beast planet will be pve oriented, it won't be devoid of pvp. If anything the whole concept of traveling from one planet to another planet, and the demons being able to travel easier than the other races, makes the beast planet a pvp planet as well, in a sense. And that "sense" is that, I (a demon), will come to the beast planet with the sole purpose of destroying everything I can in my path.
So, from your response to this thread as well as to other threads (and primarily at other threads) it seems to me that you disagree with a core element of the devs' vision!!
tl;dr the beast planet is not meant to be the safe space for pvers.
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@phaethonas community has the power to change things ;). The devs doesn't want to produce a game for just 4dogs. I'm pretty sure they aim to get more players as possible. Anyway I'll accept dev decision, I'm here just to bring my exp from other games. Players may think the same or not.
Btw 3 best mmorpg around are wow>gw2>eso so everyone should think what's make them so long-lived and with an high player base.
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@phaethonas said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@finland said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@logain said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@finland said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@logain the only real way (...)
You haven't refuted any of the points in my suggestion before your claim that I am completely wrong. As I've stated my point and stance on the subject of the developers selling gold, there's hardly any reason for me to post if there's no real discussion with valid argumentation, so I'm going to vanish from this thread and hope for the developers to keep their vision and word on only selling cosmetic items.
Dude I told many times what's going to happen with a full pvp open world without restrictions. My vision comes from years spent on other games. But hey! Everyone has their own vision, I just don't like your. Devs have to care about 2 things only when they are going to find a solution to stop gold sellers (avoiding ddos throubles):
- pvp. So don't find a solution that facilitates pvp
- merchant players. So find a solution to avoid player becoming so reach to sell gold.
Sincerely, my vision, your vision, @Logain 's vision is unimportant. The devs seem to have a vision and the devs are making a heavy pvp focused/oriented game.
The demon planet will be full of pvp and lawless pvp at that. I can totally imagine it having full loot privileges. And I can totally imagine this element to be restricted to the demon planet and not the human planet.
The human planet will have pvp, but it will be "lawful" and there will be a "justice system", for which we don't know much more. We can assume that some kind of Karma system will be implemented, although other novel and interesting ideas have been proposed at the forum.
Although the beast planet will be pve oriented, it won't be devoid of pvp. If anything the whole concept of traveling from one planet to another planet, and the demons being able to travel easier than the other races, makes the beast planet a pvp planet as well, in a sense. And that "sense" is that, I (a demon), will come to the beast planet with the sole purpose of destroying everything I can in my path.
So, from your response to this thread as well as to other threads (and primarily at other threads) it seems to me that you disagree with a core element of the devs' vision!!
tl;dr the beast planet is not meant to be the safe space for pvers.
You're wrong about the dev's vision: https://forum.fracturedmmo.com/topic/1091/clarification-on-the-target-audience/58
According to Prometheus, Arboreus features areas that are entirely PvE and those that are not, are still seriously restricted for PvPers.
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@finland said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@phaethonas community has the power to change things ;). The devs doesn't want to produce a game for just 4dogs. I'm pretty sure they aim to get more players as possible. Anyway I'll accept dev decision, I'm here just to bring my exp from other games. Players may think the same or not.
Btw 3 best mmorpg around are wow>gw2>eso so everyone should think what's make them so long-lived and with an high player base.
Yeah, I thought as much!
So, you basically want to tell me that you are here to change the Devs' opinion!
As for the 3 "best MMORPGs", well, this is part of the problem. Pvers have a game to play, pvpers, don't.
So, I can say that games that will focus at (open world) pvpers and/or crafters have a good chance of becoming successful because they will be targeting the two most neglected demographics of MMORPGs.
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@phaethonas said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@finland said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@phaethonas community has the power to change things ;). The devs doesn't want to produce a game for just 4dogs. I'm pretty sure they aim to get more players as possible. Anyway I'll accept dev decision, I'm here just to bring my exp from other games. Players may think the same or not.
Btw 3 best mmorpg around are wow>gw2>eso so everyone should think what's make them so long-lived and with an high player base.
Yeah, I thought as much!
So, you basically want to tell me that you are here to change the Devs' opinion!
As for the 3 "best MMORPGs", well, this is part of the problem. Pvers have a game to play, pvpers, don't.
So, I can say that games that will focus at (open world) pvpers and/or crafters have a good chance of becoming successful because they will be targeting the two most neglected demographics of MMORPGs.
Other than EVE, which open world PvP game is succesful? Darkfall keeps dying, Mortal Online got a few hundred players left, Albion is dying, WoW is overhauling its PvP servers, etc.
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@phaethonas said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:Pvers have a game to play, pvpers, don't.
Lol gw2 is a world vs world for example do not tell silly things about pve and pvp. Wow got pvp too. Eso too.
If you use google you will find more games fully pvp than fully pve ;). Anyway the point was not the pvp or pve but the best/most played mmorpg around (highest player base is there so they have something that the most players want).
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@vengu eve got a reputation. There are only player with that kind of attitude and most rest of the players tries out to avoid. I met many of them (eve players) in 2 years of albion and I had to kick them (I hate assole that joys hurting others or smiling on people crying out). I'm bored to hear guild mates screaming around! I lost 450 player in 4 months after the realease of AO ;). Not gonna tell you how many during beta.
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From what I've read about your play style, it seems like everything you hate about a game is present in Fractured. I just have a feeling you will not enjoy this game.
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@jetah If I can be competitive without equip I will play it for sure
Otherwise if will be Albion Online 2.0 I will not play it
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I'm still going by my statement that everything you hate about a pvp game is in Fractured.
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@jetah We don't know what's going to be in fractured! The game is not out and I'll push much at possible to not get shit in the game
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You have a distaste for forced pvp, looting a player corpse, ganking, espionage, etc. All of which Fractured will have.
It's just something I've thought about while in discussions with you.
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@finland said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@phaethonas said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:Pvers have a game to play, pvpers, don't.
Lol gw2 is a world vs world for example do not tell silly things about pve and pvp. Wow got pvp too. Eso too.
If you use google you will find more games fully pvp than fully pve ;). Anyway the point was not the pvp or pve but the best/most played mmorpg around (highest player base is there so they have something that the most players want).
most pvpers hate those games, because those games are being made, maintained, designed and updated with pvers in mind.
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@vengu said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@phaethonas said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@finland said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@phaethonas community has the power to change things ;). The devs doesn't want to produce a game for just 4dogs. I'm pretty sure they aim to get more players as possible. Anyway I'll accept dev decision, I'm here just to bring my exp from other games. Players may think the same or not.
Btw 3 best mmorpg around are wow>gw2>eso so everyone should think what's make them so long-lived and with an high player base.
Yeah, I thought as much!
So, you basically want to tell me that you are here to change the Devs' opinion!
As for the 3 "best MMORPGs", well, this is part of the problem. Pvers have a game to play, pvpers, don't.
So, I can say that games that will focus at (open world) pvpers and/or crafters have a good chance of becoming successful because they will be targeting the two most neglected demographics of MMORPGs.
Other than EVE, which open world PvP game is succesful? Darkfall keeps dying, Mortal Online got a few hundred players left, Albion is dying, WoW is overhauling its PvP servers, etc.
and your point is what? that pvpers don't exist?
Other than EVE, the rest games you mentioned (with the exception of Darkfall which was and is just bad) are being designed for pvers and they have added pvp just to attract pvpers. As those games are designed for pvers though, pvpers are not having fun at them.
So, a game that is designed for pvpers is valid.
If you disagree, then please don't play games that are designed for pvpers and go play a pve oriented game.
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@jetah said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:looting a player corpse, ganking, espionage
Half loot would not be a problem (looting just the bags and not the equip).
Still I don't see the point to make more games that have all that. If that comes true you will see only demons around till the game will die
This game is supposed to have 3 playsyle one for each planet. that's why I'm still here!
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@phaethonas said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@vengu said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@phaethonas said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@finland said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@phaethonas community has the power to change things ;). The devs doesn't want to produce a game for just 4dogs. I'm pretty sure they aim to get more players as possible. Anyway I'll accept dev decision, I'm here just to bring my exp from other games. Players may think the same or not.
Btw 3 best mmorpg around are wow>gw2>eso so everyone should think what's make them so long-lived and with an high player base.
Yeah, I thought as much!
So, you basically want to tell me that you are here to change the Devs' opinion!
As for the 3 "best MMORPGs", well, this is part of the problem. Pvers have a game to play, pvpers, don't.
So, I can say that games that will focus at (open world) pvpers and/or crafters have a good chance of becoming successful because they will be targeting the two most neglected demographics of MMORPGs.
Other than EVE, which open world PvP game is succesful? Darkfall keeps dying, Mortal Online got a few hundred players left, Albion is dying, WoW is overhauling its PvP servers, etc.
and your point is what? that pvpers don't exist?
Other than EVE, the rest games you mentioned (with the exception of Darkfall which was and is just bad) are being designed for pvers and they have added pvp just to attract pvpers. As those games are designed for pvers though, pvpers are not having fun at them.
So, a game that is designed for pvpers is valid.
If you disagree, then please don't play games that are designed for pvpers and go play a pve oriented game.
What are you talking about? Fractured has a planet solely designed for PvE players. Do you think this is a PvP oriented game? Also, if you think that games like Mortal Online and Albion are PvE oriented games, I don't know what to say...
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@phaethonas said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:most pvpers hate those games, because those games are being made, maintained, designed and updated with pvers in mind.
What kind of pvp actions are you looking for in a game?
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@vengu said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:What are you talking about? Fractured has a planet solely designed for PvE players. Do you think this is a PvP oriented game? Also, if you think that games like Mortal Online and Albion are PvE oriented games, I don't know what to say...
and that planet solely designed for PvE can be invaded by humans and demons. which causes that planet to become pvx for a few hours or however long an invasion will last. there is at least 1 place that'll be sacred which no evil being can reach but outside of that evil will dance a lovely song.
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@jetah said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:@vengu said in
Issue | Goldsellers and DDoS attacks:What are you talking about? Fractured has a planet solely designed for PvE players. Do you think this is a PvP oriented game? Also, if you think that games like Mortal Online and Albion are PvE oriented games, I don't know what to say...
and that planet solely designed for PvE can be invaded by humans and demons. which causes that planet to become pvx for a few hours or however long an invasion will last. there is at least 1 place that'll be sacred which no evil being can reach but outside of that evil will dance a lovely song.
That's not how it works. Arboreus has no eclipse-style PvP event like Syndesia. Evil players will be heavily debuffed at all times while Beastmen will be buffed. There's no "happy PvP hour" on Arboreus.
