Suggestion: Different spells have different armor requirements
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@Gothix If movement and gap closers are scaled inversely proportional with armor class, then tanks cannot engage in zvz and melee are pretty much useless in pvp. From what I read so far and from what I've seen in other games (increase cooldown, manipulate mana, completely lock skills based on armor class, reduce damage, have different kinds of armor block different kinds of damage), in my opinion reducing damage is the most viable option.
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@Gothix said in Suggestion: Different spells have different armor requirements:
No. In fact my point is, warriors should not have long range "jumps", "charges", or any long range gap closers.
It completely depends how soft and hard CC will be dealt with ( it would suck for melee to get permaslowed), gap closers might be mandatory (or at least some kind of movement speed boost)
If your armor is 5kg then you jump (arbitary numbers) 20 yards, if your armor is 50kg, then you jump 3 yards, if your armor is somewhere in between, you jump appropriately as well.
it seems logical, but guys with 5kg armour (rogues) will "Blink strike" or "teleport to backstab" which is pure magic, so imo logic doesnt apply here. I get what you mean, mechanic doesn´t seem bad, but heavy armour guys unable to cast spells (so they permanently have to chase you around to land melee hits) and unable to go invisible (for better initiation / to escape anytime) are already disadvantaged.
In case heavy armor offers "better protection", and does not nerf damage potention, then movement HAS TO be nerfed.
if warrior is melee (limitation as in heavy plate - cant go invis, cant cast offensive spells) : he has nice damage, but enemy can kite him --> he needs huge damage to be competitive, because enemy doesn´t stand in place and warrior doesnt have many opportunities to deal damage - so no nerf please
if war could go invis (limitation as in medium armour - no offensive spells) : movement speed doesnt matter that much anymore because enemy wouldnt know war´s position, he could sneak to him and blink strike from short distance - nerf wouldnt have much effect
if war could cast spells (limitation like if in cloth armour) : if I could cast ranged spells, why would i move (except to evade something or to chase, but then i can CC ) - nerf uselessOther options is to not nerf anything, but make heavy armor not offer "better protection" overall, only the different kind of protection.
like each armour having better protection against one element / damage type? Or how is it ment? Only thing of is Path of exile system (heavy armour = much physical armour, medium = evasion specialist, mage armour = mana shield which shields actual health). Maybe make difference in enchanting - heavy armour = only defensive enchants, medium = both, light only offensive enchants (this would limit heavy plate users offence, but also light users defence, however mages rarely rely on their armour, they have CC and magic defence right).
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@asspirin Yeah, I would make heavy armor offer strong physical protection (customizing armor chooses which types and how much of which physical protection, bludgeoning, slashing, stabbing,...). Heavy armor would offer much less magic protection.
On the opposite side, cloth armor should offer stronger magical protections (customizing armor chooses which types and how much of which magical protection, fire, shadow, holy,...). Cloth armor would offer much less physical protection.
Leather armor would offer medium amount of both, and customization would choose how much of which in same way like above.
Player could then (if he can wear anything) mix and match, leather hat, cloth pants, plate chest,... And make his armor balanced for all, or he could min max cloth armor for specific magic protection for certain tasks, for example.
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@Gothix said in Suggestion: Different spells have different armor requirements:
Player could then (if he can wear anything) mix and match, leather hat, cloth pants, plate chest,... And make his armor balanced for all, or he could min max cloth armor for specific magic protection for certain tasks, for example.
This would make tanking quite awkward both in pve, because they have to carry a bunch of sets and change whenever they reach the next group of mobs; and in zvz because if they have cloth, they get killed by archers, if they have plate, they get killed by mages, and if they have medium, they take too much damage from both. It's far easier to balance the way it is now, or if higher armor classes get damage debuffs, or if lower armor classes get damage buffs.
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the system is fine how it is atm, armor is ONLY defensive stats and not offense, and with the enchantment stuff you can get that defensives you want as it works for now
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Exactly.
The way it is now heavy is tanky armour, cloth is damage armour. By "cloth resists magic" and "heavy resists weapons" you would only make heavy armour less tanky against mages and cloth more tanky against them ---> making both of them situationally tanky or useless (just like with "Resist fire/poison ability granting immunity to element" - you either pwn your enemy as youre immune or he pwns you, if he is immune to your damage ... sry to repeat it everywhere i can, but immunities have nothing to do in pvp game
). Also don´t forget not all abilities can be used in all armour (or with shield, orneed some weapon etc.), having to balance everything this way would be imo too chaotic. Why not keep it simple - tank-plate, assassin - medium, mage - cloth. It´s classical holy trinity system used everywhere, because it works.Player could then (if he can wear anything) mix and match, leather hat, cloth pants, plate chest,... And make his armor balanced for all, or he could min max cloth armor for specific magic protection for certain tasks, for example.
So if resist would average, isn´t it exactly same as if I´d go full heavy / medium / light ( leather hat, cloth pants, plate chest = medium hat, medium pants, medium chest) ?
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@Razvan said in Suggestion: Different spells have different armor requirements:
This would make tanking quite awkward both in pve, because they have to carry a bunch of sets and change whenever they reach the next group of mobs
But it's like that for everyone.
That's the point of this game, to have multiple sets of armor, and then prepare for expedition, gear for what you aim, and embark on a journey. Do what you wanted then go home, rest, recover, unload booty, prepare new gear for what you want to do.
This MMO is not supposed to be, go around, kill anything in same gear, roam how long you like not carrying about bag space, do what you like without ever returning home to re-prepare.
By having an ability to mix and match, you can make yourself geared towards situation you want to do. If task is too hard for one person (lack of gear maybe, or simply too hard in any other way), then find a party, gear up for your role in party, AND situation at hand and go. After the task is completed go home and gear up for next task.
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@Shivashanti said in Suggestion: Different spells have different armor requirements:
the system is fine how it is atm, armor is ONLY defensive stats and not offense, and with the enchantment stuff you can get that defensives you want as it works for now
Agreed, but people were talking in the context of this thread where it is advocated that tanks should be able to use nuke spells. If this change ever occurs, then there should be a major drawback in doing so.
@Gothix
The point of this game is to make tanking as awkward as possible by having them lose multiple sets when getting dove, change gear every few group of mobs and be melted before any engagement in large scale pvp? ... What can I say? I'm glad the designers don't share your view.
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then find a party, gear up for your role in party
The game is supoposed to be soloable, right?
to have multiple sets of armor, and then prepare for expedition, gear for what you aim
...and then pray you wont meet ganker with spells if youre in heavy armour ?
pve point of view: so for every mobs youre going to farm you´ll switch armour? 
So everyone should be tank (by picking proper armour type for pve fights)?As Razvan posted - how about pvp? Will there be even be CC tanks? if so, what will they wear? Will your team consist of tanks in robe agains spells and tanks in plate against fighters ? Or will whole big scale pvp consist of running from countering armour and finding armour guy you counter?
Maybe i dont get something, but this doesnt seem doable.
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it's simple as that: first on, spells only have a weapon and armor restriction, if you want to have plate armor for example and wanna be defensive against certain types of spell dmg you'll need to enchant it with the defensives you want so far the hide armor (and probably the plate ones too) have just higher base defense against stabbing crushing and piercing, everything else you need to do with enchantment like you want to have it
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@Razvan @asspirin I simply don't want yet another cakewalk game.
The harder the better.
Every single MMO nowdays is getting nerfed to hell, so kids wouldn't cry while playing. It's a sad reality.
Everything needs to be soloable, why??
Everyone needs to be able to do everything with one set of gear, why??
And what if gear is lost, one can go and make new one. Or be smart and organized and don't lose it in the first place (or lose it very rarely by playing smart, and with friends).Someone has long job and only 2 hours to play? So he wants to ruin the game for everyone else by nerfing it to the ground, just so it fit his particular lifestyle? That's pretty darn selfish.
For me, even this what is planned is way to easy. It should be harder. It should be easier to lose the gear. Gear should be even more specialized so you need to carefully think what you are doing and where.
Game should not get easier... it should get harder.
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The harder the better ?
It doesnt seem hard, just complicated. -_- Where in your preferred system is anything harder?
Everything needs to be soloable, why??
Because devs stated so. And because someone doesn´t want to play in group ... and somebody wants more challenge (you know, solo it´s harder, and the harder the better :p)
Everyone needs to be able to do everything with one set of gear, why??
Because gear specialises you to be tank - assassin - mage, so you can fulfill your role in group (which you probably want) - having one gear set forces you to adapt to everything, having possibility to not only choose best spells for upcomming fight but also armour more suitable to is actually choosing difficulty NORMAL -> EASY ...cmon, the harder, the better
; you actually want the same, just more complicated and tiresome, because if you bear at least three sets of armour and weapons for your "fighting sets", your carrying capatity will suffer, so you will have to go home more often. Btw its the attributes that define you and these cant be changed much on go, you will be tank no matter what (or if you have more attributes on 18 you can be more fluid (btw I don´t want to meet tank in pajamas who wears it "to be tanky against magical boss, it would imo be silly)).
And btw noone is forcing you NOT to carry 3 different sets for armour (be it light, medium, heavy) for every occasion, why force it to others?Or be smart and organized and don't lose it in the first place
Gankers say "Good luck being organised"
; I have no problem with gankers btw, nor with lose of gear if it was my fault, it´s imo more fun to fear the consequences, but not everything can be prepared beforehand, sometimes one has to adapt and improvise (or can be played on EASY with friends)Someone has long job and only 2 hours to play? So he wants to ruin the game for everyone else by nerfing it to the ground, just so it fit his particular lifestyle? That's pretty darn selfish.
Someone wants to have it overcomplicated for no actual improvement so it fits his particular gameplay? That´s pretty darn selfish
Cmon, let´s agree we disagree and leave the decision which way the devs want their game go on them It should be easier to lose the gear. It should be harder.
do PVP
... or dont make it easier for yourself and dont play in group 
Also you die if your HEALTH drops to 0 and health is dependant on CON, which is going to be changed a little, so nothing is final yet.
No offence I actually didn´t even get yet whether youre referring to PvE or PvP. Hope it´s not about pve, its just tutorial and way to get all the abilities, dying doesn´t matter much and if you die, you just prepare better.
In PvP only difficulty is skill of your opponent, so what difficulty you´re talking about?
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@Shivashanti yep, we know it, this system is imo optimal; our conversation is about something else (one shouldn´t be dps AND tank at once in pvp game), we´re talking about balance
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@asspirin yeah ik sorry, but it's kind of pointless for now because we have no clue what skills we'll get
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@Shivashanti You´re right, but we´re not discussing skills but armour atm, skill will be next
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@Gothix
Sorry for the late reply; I've been very busy these daysSince it's quite a niche game, I assumed that the target demographic of this game is people who used to play MMOs in early 2000s, which are at least in their 30s nowadays. But anyway, you bring a good point: who is this game aimed at? If it's hardcore players, I will have to quit it for the same reason I quit Albion (I don't have time for it).
I disagree with you on one point: your definition of "harder" is not actually harder, but "a bigger time sink". For example, if every armor blocks a different kind of damage type, when you get dove you lose a few sets. To recover your loss you need to put more time in the game. On the other hand, you can ramp up the difficulty without making it a bigger time sink by adding a bunch of bosses with different mechanics, strengths and weaknesses on a PVE path. Instead of having the tank carry a bunch of gear and change it after each boss, everyone in the party changes the loadout accordingly to what they fight.
Of course not everything has to be soloable, but there should be solo content with fewer rewards than the higher risk party content.
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What I personally love is how original The Secret World did it. With the amount of customization of gear, and complexity of theory crafting for your decks, and the huge effect that different deck and gear had on your efficiency.
(One thing though that TSW had is possibility to have enormous bag space, so carrying multiple sets of gear wasn't an issue.)
Here, considering Fractured is a full loot exploration MMO, huge bag space wouldn't fit in, because it has to be limited, due to farming mats, carrying consumables, survival aspects....
What if: "common bag space" was limited, but we had separate inventory, only accepting gear pieces, which would be a bit more liberal?
(check additional explanation in the followup post, where further limitations are explained)This inventory could also be looted on death, so it would still be risk vs profit to bring a lots of gear with you, but carrying alternate gear wouldn't directly affect how much materials we can farm, because those materials and all other items would get stored together to the "common bag".
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Hmmm in addition to the above:
since liberal gear inventory (without further limitations) could be "abused" to go on "kill/loot spree" to steal a lots of other peoples gear and cary it all to home...
GEAR BRANDING
Lets say gear can be "branded"... you brand your gear only in your home using workstation. Only when gear has your brand on it, you can carry it in this special gear inventory!
Gear you have stolen, still has someone elses brand on it (or it's unbranded), in either case, you can not put that gear to your "gear inventory" until you have transported it to your home and used workstation to re-brand it to your name.
If this was implemented, you would be able to carry several (your brand) gear sets on you, which would allow you to exchange sets to be efficient in more scenarios on the field (granted you take the risk it will all be stolen from you if you die)... but you couldn't steal ton of gear from other people and abuse this inventory to loot it all because that gear you would still have to carry in your common bag (together with other mats, and consumables) until you transport it home and have a chance to re-brand it.
Process of re-branding could be either simple (gear gets re-branded once it's placed in storage in your house), or more complex and require workstation and some other mats.
Gear you have stolen would still be instantly usable (you could equip and use it right away), it would just be unable to be placed in your "gear bag" until its brought to home and re-branded to your name.
Perhaps "gear branding" as a feature could also have some other effects and consequences, not connected to "gear inventory suggestion"?
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Mounts will most likely have a big influence over the inventory system (or at the very least increase your carry weight), so it's hard to talk about inventory unless we know more about mounts mechanics.
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It only makes sense that mounts can be looted as well. Otherwise everyone would just store stuff there to be protected.
Personal inventory or mount invenotry... main issue still remains. If your gear and mats share same bag space then you are heavily limited in versality because you need to take less gear to be able to farm more mats.
The way around it would be my suggestion with limitations explained.
Gear branding could be used in many other game aspects as well, so it wouldnt be a feature solely usable in connection with gear inventory.
So we do not need to know more about mount mechanics to talk about this.
