Instanced Dungeons/Raids
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@vengu no way to balance the open world.
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There are good arguments for both sides, but to be honest instances kill the social interactions that open zones might force. Its those interactions that you will remember long after why you were there in the first place.
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@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
@jetah antizerg mechanic = oneshot. Griefers hiding around can steal-loot. Open world pvp is fine but not dung or boss. Albion proved it ppl were tagging the mobs just to let the boss oneshot the orther guilds players. I know that you care just about gank some players around but about pve side I have more exp tho.
Where do you get a one shot mechanic for anti-Zerg? Yeah some people will die but they went in expecting some loss, that’s why they Zerg.
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Would this be like dungeons or raids in WoW ?
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@jetah said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
if mob hp and damage scale with nearby players then zergs might not work.
Great. Let's make it that the more PvP players shows up in dungeon the harder it is for PvE players... not really a good solution
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@tulukaruk scale up it's the only solution for open dungeons/raids. That's needed to avoid 80 players focusing the same target. But as I sad before if too many players tag the mob/boss it became so powerfull to oneshot players. Anti-zerg. Anyway I hope to see dungeons/raids/boss with pvp off.
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@jetah said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
@jetah antizerg mechanic = oneshot. Griefers hiding around can steal-loot. Open world pvp is fine but not dung or boss. Albion proved it ppl were tagging the mobs just to let the boss oneshot the orther guilds players. I know that you care just about gank some players around but about pve side I have more exp tho.
Where do you get a one shot mechanic for anti-Zerg? Yeah some people will die but they went in expecting some loss, that’s why they Zerg.
Albion had it too after 10 tags. With 20-25 tags the mobs/boss can hit three times the HP of a player. Anyway I hope to see enough safe dungeons/raids (pvp off). I don't like to fight mobs and meanwhile fight players.
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@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
(...)single server with 10k?100k? (...) players (...)
Thank you, you just made my day
100k concurrent user in a game developed by a non AAA studio (no offense intended, but they simply don't have the resources to come even close to that).
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@logain Albion Online had 180k accounts at launch. Indie game does not mean that can't be popular.
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@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
@logain Albion Online had 180k accounts at launch. Indie game does not mean that can't be popular.
Oh, I see, you have been using the wrong figure for a comparison in that case! It is very important to use the correct metric when debating a design, the amount of accounts is mute when it comes to how 'busy' a world really feels, your best bet (unless you can provide a heat map, which is impossible since the game doesn't exist yet) is concurrent users.
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@logain 4000-6000 CCU well not at launch tho
that was a statistc after the big drop. Anyway we are going off topic and the problem still remains.
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@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
@logain 4000-6000 CCU well not at launch tho
that was a statistc after the big drop.You might want to read the complete statement, not just the first few lines. They peaked at 30k CCU, which is an incredible achievement. but nothing that could be planned and relied on.
@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
Anyway we are going off topic and the problem still remains.
It is somewhat on topic and relevant if your argument is that the population can't be spread out enough to design open world dungeons and would thus require instanced dungeons.
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@logain dude albion have a ranking system that sort ppl by the exp (fame) gained. You can esly see who were playing. Anyway that game lost so many players due game design. Second thing CCU is fake tho. 1 server world wide means different time zones. So yeah they may had 30k players up at the same time but how many in the whole day? Open world thngy are just zergs. Instanced thngy bring same balance and safe gameplays.
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@Logain @Finland Truth is I dont think anyone on either side of the argument is going to relent. Both dislike the other too much to agree so the deciding factor is just going to have to be the spotlight thats coming out hopefully this week. I personally like open world in theory and in its best form, but it can and most likely will divulge into a zergfest which in reality is just a spam fest with no real tactics or fun, especially for those in the minor numbers. But lets me hopeful they find a way round this.
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i want to point out that fractured isn't Albion. Just because Albion did something doesn't mean fractured will copy it. WoW has scaling mobs and they never became so powerful that they 1 shot people!
again, mobs don't need to scale up their damage to 1 shot players. I'm not sure why but every time you mention Albion I become pissed.
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@jetah mobs in wow are tag restricted if you are outside the party/raid that tagged the mob you are out (getting no loot and wasting your time by helping out another group for nothing). If I tag a mob I'll get the loot and the mob wont scale. Flex raids are instanced and scales based on the number but there is a maximum number of player that can do it. It does not scale infinite. If I mentioned AO was just because it is the game that get closer by open pvp wishes. I don't like it and I talk much as possible to see fractured totally different. If I compare so much is just to avoid to see the same fails.
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Sometimes I wonder if having open dungeons could lead to more and better player interactions though. But I agree, having options for both seems like the best way to go!
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@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
@jetah mobs in wow are tag restricted if you are outside the party/raid that tagged the mob you are out (getting no loot and wasting your time by helping out another group for nothing). If I tag a mob I'll get the loot and the mob wont scale. Flex raids are instanced and scales based on the number but there is a maximum number of player that can do it. It does not scale infinite. If I mentioned AO was just because it is the game that get closer by open pvp wishes. I don't like it and I talk much as possible to see fractured totally different. If I compare so much is just to avoid to see the same fails.
You haven't played WoW in a few years, it's changed. Pre-Legion events had all mobs scale, new alts at level 1 to max of 100 could damage and tank! the mobs. Seasonal bosses in Dungeons also scale from the minimum level of 15 to max level. Right now Blizzard has all vanilla zones scale, I believe it also works in all pre-legion content.
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@jetah you are right I have played only one week of legion to maximize my main (I really prefer vanilla over everything, that game gets ruined year by year). Anyway mobs that scales on a player level is different than mobs scaling for each player hittin that mob. If nothing changed mobs still work with the tag system. So the 1st player (fastest) will lock the mob to him or his party/raid. Anyway offering both solutions will make everyone happy. I really don't see your point of view. How instaced thingy could ruin your ideological game?
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@finland said in Instanced Dungeons/Raids:
@jetah you are right I have played only one week of legion to maximize my main (I really prefer vanilla over everything, that game gets ruined year by year). Anyway mobs that scales on a player level is different than mobs scaling for each player hittin that mob. If nothing changed mobs still work with the tag system. So the 1st player (fastest) will lock the mob to him or his party/raid. Anyway offering both solutions will make everyone happy. I really don't see your point of view. How instaced thingy could ruin your ideological game?
pre-legion mobs had hundreds hitting on them. it's possible fractured could have personal loot for open world dungeons/bosses, much like WoW has for the world bosses (as well as the pre-legion event). This allowed everyone who healed other players or attacked the boss to get something. of course there could be pvp during or after the bosses death but who knows.
