Сheat attributes.
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I would suggest to complicate the system of pumping stats,
That would not be just not killed characters or over strong and successful games.
To do this, simply add negative effects to each of the stats. I'll write as I imagine it.- Strength - when pumping from above 15,Your muscles have become so big that you create a pumping atmosphere; NPCs and peaceful animals are afraid of you.
- Dexterity - when pumping from above 15 - your allied NPCs start to lag behind you; there is a higher chance that you will be hit with a critical chance (you could not dodge a sneaky blow because it was conducted from a blind zon(you become too presumptuous))
- Intellect - when pumping from above 15 - you start to drive the arsenal too arrogantly when talking to the NPC; you have so much compatibility with mana that it literally pervades your body, but when its peace breaks the alien energy flow it also reflects on your body (decrease of resistance to magical attacks (elemental))
- Constitution - when pumping from above 15 - you have increased resistance to positive effects from potions
- Perception - when pumping from above 15 - you begin to suspect all the games in the PC (most likely there will be some indication (a little something)) (this is the only thing that came to my mind.)
- Charisma - when pumping from above 15 - you begin to attract too much attention and your area of aggression of monsters increases.
I wrote this post in order to discourage players from overstating one characteristic, these restrictions will not be a pleasant barrier for those who decide to maximize the attributes, and also that there would not be only positive traits.
I'm waiting for your suggestions on the change in comments
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Why the need for a penalty? Pumping all your points in 1 or 2 stats is already a penalty really, because you lack points in all the other stats.
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I don't like it. Mr merchant! Debuffing people for what kind of purpose?
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@finland Immersion! Arrogance, Paranoia, Jealousy... they are all deciding factors in the real wold, why not having them in the game as well? It would add a touch of character to the game. Think of Darkest Dungeon and it's psyche management mechanics... the game would be a lot less entertaining without them. Though not necessarily in the form presented, I find this an interesting tweak. Sure some balancing is required but it would certainly create room for plenty viable builds that are not min maxed, thus giving variety to the game. It comes down to how much effort it takes to implement on the developer's behalf though. Sometimes, it's unwise to go for every good idea.
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@darian does not make sense if I have better stats you can't debuff me, it's silly. I don want to see a such bunch of things in game. Personality/attitude comes from players not characters. A game must be easy to be enjoyable more complicate you go less people you will get in.
If you want simulate those states go RP
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@EvolGrinZ This restriction, for those who do not pay attention to the penalty due to insufficient characteristics,
Also, these are restrictions for players who are too much pumped, it will not be very pleasant to pump the characteristics to the maximum.Of course, this requires improvement and balance, because this is only the original proposal.@Finland The developers have already determined that this game will not be easy, which is already explained by the complete loss of things at the death of the character.
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@33hp dude we want increase an attribute to became stronger that would be silly to get a debuff. If you wan affect NPC by something you should suggest something related to alignments not attributes. Like if you are Evil the NPC guards will try to hunt you down. If you are Lawfull Good NPCs will cheer at you. Things like this.
Otherwise I should suggest that if your char is too rich, you will start dropping/losing money and things randomly. Fair enough?
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Why would they implement such thing? The different races have different attribute caps to set them apart. Applying penalties would go against the very idea of the attribute system. A Hellfire Demon has high strength because their bodies are quite simply built for such strength. Same thing with the Dexterity of the Tiger-Kin, who are naturally more agile, hence the higher Dexterity. Penalties don't make sense. The caps already ensure that nobody can pump it all into one stat.
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@Finland, @Vengu
Maybe the loss of things is just a little unintelligible, but if you make it so that when you enter the battle and get critical damage (when the inventory is full) - you dropped things on the ground, you can increase the weight of gold ...
just these aspects will affect the players regardless of their characteristics,
and my original idea was that the players would have a desire to evenly pump out the characteristics and not pump one to the maximum, of course the figure 15 is not an obligatory value and it might have to be corrected for each character in its own way.
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@33hp said in Сheat attributes.:
@Finland, @Vengu
Maybe the loss of things is just a little unintelligible, but if you make it so that when you enter the battle and get critical damage (when the inventory is full) - you dropped things on the ground, you can increase the weight of gold ...
just these aspects will affect the players regardless of their characteristics,
and my original idea was that the players would have a desire to evenly pump out the characteristics and not pump one to the maximum, of course the figure 15 is not an obligatory value and it might have to be corrected for each character in its own way.But you can't pump one to maximum. The caps aren't high enough for that. A Human can raise 3 of the 6 attributes to 18 and still have enough points left to raise the remaining 3 to 10.
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@Vengu
just my idea was to destroy not killed assemblies.
Imagine - a demon comes out against you - pro-defending and alchemy, he also has the maximum constitution.
you start the battle and realize that he has infinite regeneration with his huge amount of HP and resistance to damage. 1VS1 it's just not really win.
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@33hp said in Сheat attributes.:
@Vengu
just my idea was to destroy not killed assemblies.
Imagine - a demon comes out against you - pro-defending and alchemy, he also has the maximum constitution.
you start the battle and realize that he has infinite regeneration with his huge amount of HP and resistance to damage. 1VS1 it's just not really win.If the attributes are properly balanced, that won't be a problem. I believe attributes have a total cap of 25, and I assume that's for a good reason. I doubt that there will be a situation where a guy stacks so much constitution that he's invincible.
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@Vengu
I hope that you will be right, maybe my proposal affects the balance too much.
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I can see where @33Hp is coming from. What @Darian stated might work, not exactly full on debuffs but quirks to a person with high values? Some might even be considered good, they dont all have to be bad.
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If you don't like full debuffs, then why would half of the full flow is not to reduce negative effects by 25%, and with full pumping( everything on max) should be reduced to 40%
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Instead of debuffs why not add traits?
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@finland Yes, personality comes from players but how is an arrogant player's behavior going to influence his relations with an NPC? This game is also an RPG (role playing game) Meaning that you create a character and you role-play that character. Perhaps you don't know, but all classical RPGs had your attributes influence your character's personality to some respect. Certainly, the initial post gave some examples of what these modifiers could be. Some weren't the happiest choices like the one for dexterity, which doesn't really make sense to me, but that doesn't mean the idea of adding these modifiers as a social drawback for "going too far", is bad... It's in fact quite brilliant. It certainly needs tweaking. Like adaptation to race god and alignment modifiers, as some attributes may be highly praised in certain communities, while frowned upon in others. Think of being fat in modern society's developed countries vs. developing countries as an example.
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I'll be quite frank: this is a completely stupid idea. It isn't "immersive", it definitely isn't fun, and it also doesn't logically follow / make sense.
I'll explain the issues stat-by-stat, but I'll have to paraphrase the OP because it's a bit awkwardly worded.
STR: When STR is over 15, NPCs and peaceful animals become naturally uncomfortable with your presence.
Yeah, that's what Charisma is for. A strong guy with high Charisma is a big sweet papa bear. A strong guy with low Charisma is a swearing, drunk, brawling oaf.
DEX: When DEX is over 15, allied NPCs can't keep up, and you become susceptible to Criticals from blind spots due to your arrogance
Like before, another stat more intuitively handles Criticals: Perception.
Criticals are not the antithesis or opposite of a clean miss, and it makes no sense that "arrogance" courtesy of pro dodging strats would allow you to keep dodging every single hit except Criticals. Criticals are a simplified amalgam of blind spots (DEX & PER), weak points in armor or anatomy (CON), approach to perfection of attack v. dodge technique (INT), lucky or skilled timing (DEX & PER), and just plain hitting way damn harder than normal (STR), alongside other discrete factors that can't be paid the proper individual attention in a Diablo- or MOBA-style MMO context.
Also, you're basically saying to cap the movement speed buff at the movement speed of your slowest party member, since you'll be stopping for them to catch up, making a sufficiently high movement speed buff largely pointless outside of close combat within a small area.
Screw that, I've had enough of that mess from Secret of Mana.
INT: When INT is over 15, you speak arrogantly to NPCs, and your attunement to mana decreases your resistance to magical attacks.
Yo. Yo. Charisma exists. Remember that stat? That determines whether you rub people the wrong way or not. That's the express and sole definition of the stat.
But gosh, what a great idea: remove the only form of defense a classical INT character has. In every single other RPG in history, INT increases your magic defense. You know why? Because...
- No other stat does, since we don't have "WIL" or another dedicated magic resist stat. CON is the physical resist stat and if it was also the magic resist stat then CON characters would be invincible which is not acceptable.
- INT-heavy characters sacrifice some form of physical prowess, either in STR, CON, or both, so it's only fair that they get magic resistance since they usually won't have physical resistance
- Because if INT is understood implicitly as the "knowing how magic works" stat, hence why a high-INT character casts better / stronger spells, then it should also be the "defending against magic / counter-spelling" stat
CON: When CON is above 15, healing & buff potions are less effective alongside poisons.
A higher body mass increases the dosage needed for any drug, poison, etc. to have the same observed effect, but Constitution is not body mass. Constitution is fitness and health. Here in real life, a healthier and more fit person is more resistant to disease and better-affected by positive medications and other medical treatments compared to an ill person.
That is because poisons work against the body's systems while medications work alongside them. This is a necessary element of the intelligent design of a poison or medication.
Consequently, the stronger said body systems are (Constitution), the less effective poisons will be and the more effective medications will be.
PER: When PER is above 15, you become suspicious of everyone around you.
? ? ? Why exactly?? It's called Perception, not Paranoia. Perception would make you less suspicious of (innocent) people around you because you were better able to perceive their true intentions and thus know in reality whether they were innocent or not.
CHA: When CHA is over 15, you begin attracting bad attention and monsters aggro to you from further away.
So, high Charisma does what low Charisma should do. Got it.
What do you think the point of the stat is? It's social awareness and the ability to doctor your behavior to get the desired response /attention.
You seem to be mixing it up with Fame.
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The general idea is not so bad but for sure every point he explained must be rewrited. That kind of RP attitude should happen just when walking close to an NPC or talking to it. Nothing that would touch economy or combat.
Things like:
- Intellect - You appear as a cultured character and consequently NPCs admire you by asking you things that only you could answer.
- Charisma - You you appear as a very popular character and you are loved by NPCs.
- Dexterity - You appear as a very agile character and then you can move more easily through the NPC crowd (ignoring NPC bodyblock?).
- Spirit - you appear as a wise character and as a result the NPCs feel much calmer and happier when they are nearby.
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Honestly, there are far better ways to alter stats in the forms of buffs rather than nerfs. I don't see the need to penalize a player nor do I like this system. I don't get how its "cheat attributes" either.
