Is there any lowest chance to hit ?
-
Im reffering to GRIM DAWN, with system offence vs defence --> if your defence way WAY higher than your enemyยดs, you would literally never got critted, chance to hit you might be as low as 4% and even then the damage would be severely reduced. So in later patch this was changed, so that the lowest possible chance to hit would be 60% (and reduced damage). Im asking this because in older videos guys with dagger had problems hitting enemy with dagger. - I know it has beel already solved and skill Death mark got nice bonus to aim, but Im curious as there is still large amount of skills we dont know (so far not even 8% of abilities have been revealed and all will have 3 variants).
Lets say we have Chadra / Shadow with natural dex 20 (300 evasion + unknown amount of evasion thanks to natural 20), natural charisma 20 (with active Inspire 240 evasion + all resists) and better rolls to evade due to high luck + Fox tail amulet + 80 evade = at least 620 evasion.
Then we have Martial arts - school probably heavily specialised to evading (just like monks in ADaD). And Marksmenship - even harder to hit as itยดs ranged school. And maybe there will be abilities reducing the aim of enemy, who knows.
So if there is opponent with Perception 6, how much chance will he have against such build? Will he have some guaranteed chance to hit even against some build specialised on dodges, or is it necessary to put 100% of bonuses from equipment and armour to aim?
-
@asspirin said in Is there any lowest chance to hit ?:
Im reffering to GRIM DAWN, with system offence vs defence --> if your defence way WAY higher than your enemyยดs, you would literally never got critted, chance to hit you might be as low as 4% and even then the damage would be severely reduced. So in later patch this was changed, so that the lowest possible chance to hit would be 60% (and reduced damage). Im asking this because in older videos guys with dagger had problems hitting enemy with dagger. - I know it has beel already solved and skill Death mark got nice bonus to aim, but Im curious as there is still large amount of skills we dont know (so far not even 8% of abilities have been revealed and all will have 3 variants).
Lets say we have Chadra / Shadow with natural dex 20 (300 evasion + unknown amount of evasion thanks to natural 20), natural charisma 20 (with active Inspire 240 evasion + all resists) and better rolls to evade due to high luck + Fox tail amulet + 80 evade = at least 620 evasion.
Then we have Martial arts - school probably heavily specialised to evading (just like monks in ADaD). And Marksmenship - even harder to hit as itยดs ranged school. And maybe there will be abilities reducing the aim of enemy, who knows.
So if there is opponent with Perception 6, how much chance will he have against such build? Will he have some guaranteed chance to hit even against some build specialised on dodges, or is it necessary to put 100% of bonuses from equipment and armour to aim?
Hello asspirin! With the maximum cap of evasion (that is 1000), you have an 80% chance to evade an attack from a player with 0 Accuracy or 44% from one with 1000 Accuracy.
As you can understand, it's impossible to reach 100% of Evasion, but of course, there will be abilities that allow you to evade attacks for an amount of time (or a certain number of attacks).Martial Arts will have several dodge/block-based spells, but most likely, it will be one of the last classes that we will implement since among others, it will have an enormous number of special animations.
-
@Znirf Cool, so mages will - instead of wearing armour - simply go monk way and block / evade all the things (as unarmed is also "caster weapon"). Thanks for reply !
P.S.: Does it also mean you have to have at lest 2x the amount of accuracy to reliably have chance to hit same amount of defence (evade, will, fortify) ? Looks like accuracy is more important for casters as they can mostly contribute to fight with skills on CD and if the spell is saved, they cant do much until CD is off (unless there are ranged caster weapons or theyยดre melee / ranged hybrids) and melee guys have abilities that cannot miss.
-
@asspirin said in Is there any lowest chance to hit ?:
@Znirf Cool, so mages will - instead of wearing armour - simply go monk way and block / evade all the things (as unarmed is also "caster weapon"). Thanks for reply !
P.S.: Does it also mean you have to have at lest 2x the amount of accuracy to reliably have chance to hit same amount of defence (evade, will, fortify) ? Looks like accuracy is more important for casters as they can mostly contribute to fight with skills on CD and if the spell is saved, they cant do much until CD is off (unless there are ranged caster weapons or theyยดre melee / ranged hybrids) and melee guys have abilities that cannot miss.If your accuracy is twice your opponent evasion then you would have approximately around 85% chance to hit him. You can better understand how the evasion rate works from the table below:
๐ธ๐ฃ๐๐ ๐๐๐ ๐ถโ๐๐๐๐ = ๐ธ๐ฃ๐๐ ๐๐๐/(๐ด๐๐๐ข๐๐๐๐ฆ+๐พ)
Where K is the armor needed to always evade an attack performed with 0 accuracy. You can use the same formula also to calculate Willpower vs Accuracy or Fortitude vs Accuracy (just exchanging the evasion value with either willpower or fortitude).
-
@Znirf said in Is there any lowest chance to hit ?:
Where K is the armor needed to always evade an attack performed with 0 accuracy. You can use the same formula also to calculate Willpower vs Accuracy or Fortitude vs Accuracy (just exchanging the evasion value with either willpower or fortitude).
Sorry to bring this up~ I've been trying to figure this out. You have K as armor. but that throws so much of this in a loop...I'm not understanding any of the math here.
-
@maze The "K" doesnยดt fit there to me neither. I would understand if the armour youre wearing would further increase your chance to evade melee / ranged attacks as hits would glance if armour would be thick enough, but Iยดm sure armour will not protect my "willpower"
Nevermind, take the table as information, that you need all the accuracy you can get
-
The more I work on these values the more these values just feel unfair. in a melee fight Evasion sub par...I mean you need to heavily invest in to it just to dodge someone with 0 acc....
Ontop of that Evasion does not dodge Magic.Thinking back to it. Mages were pretty OP in the testing phase. They had heavy amount's of CC. I think Evasion should reduce CC duration~ on top of being a little more effective to dodging when it comes to melee.
The real point of Evasion in most games is to not get stunned or take repeated heavy damage (dodge the stun move) but with magic being so heavy CC atm...I think evasion needs a look at.
and again~ the math formal does not make any sense...how did you guys code it in?
-
@maze
Mages were OP without doubt in alpha, but most melee and archers skills were not implemented. Also, another part is that mage armor is beyond broken in its current state.
-
@maze As the game is based on ADaD, I believe even some magical skills in Fractured might have "dodge" saves - called reflex saves in ADaD. If I take NWN2 as example, many spells have reflex save. I love the idea that spell can either affect you mind / thinking (willpower save), body integrity and resistance to body disabling effects (fortify save) and that you can even completely dodge spell effect (if itยดs dodgeable - mostly direct damage dealing spells - projectiles like various arrows ( flame arrow, posion arrow or spells that will test movement coordination like grease ).
However in Fractured you can "skilldodge" just like you can "skillshot", so youยดre probably right that evasion might be subpar - as long as player is skilled, Evasion might not play such big role.In melee situation its imo similar - dude with supreme evasion might evade MOST basic attacks (so far so good, because you can also evade crits), but many superdamaging abilities in game have "always hit" property, so you evade low dmg autoattacks, but eat nukes
Whats more - heavier armour further reduces evasion, so evasion seems like fine bonus, but nothing Iยดd max unless going ranged character.
Just for illustration - i went 6 DEX and rather raised my other defences. Attack speed can surely be increased in more ways and If i need some evasion, there are other ways - because if charisma gives such nice bonuses, why go DEX which only slightly increases attack speed.
-
@Znirf thanks
