Blind Gamer Plays WoW, CoD, MK11, D3 through Sound

[Jetah]

I'd really love to see Fractured take the accessibility route a little hard and make it easy for blind, deaf, and other disabilities to access this wonderful game. Seems sound and a screen reader (for gear and UI) would be highest for blindness.

I have discussed this before, but figured it would help to inform those who may not know about how blind people play D3.

For starters, the sound design is pretty solid, when using a headset, you can hear exactly which direction enemies are in relation to yourself, so you know which way to attack, each skill has a unique sound to it with some runes modifying the skills sound. For example, bash on the barbarian sounds different when adding the frostbite rune.

If you take the time to memorize these sounds you can identify everything your doing, as well as identifying your teammates location and what skill they are using as well.

As far as gear goes, every item in the game sounds different from one another, from a sword dropping on the ground to equipping a different shield, they all sound unique, at least the weapon classes do, all chests sound the same, legs, boots, and so on.

This is nice for sure, but I think Blizzard could do better, especially if they add a text to speech feature as a option that can be enabled or disabled.

Using a screen reader to navigate Reddit, using a Bluetooth keyboard to type this out.

I have decided to come back to D3 and figured some people may not know how I or other blind gamers play Diablo, so there you go.

I was hoping to do a greater right this season, but I have been grinding mk11 and bo4 so much I haven't played D3 for a bit.

But, nothing stops the crusade, even blindness.
sauce on Reddit D3 sub

He streams too so sighted viewers can read the screen and let him know which gear to equip.

Again, I'd love to see Fractured be developed for disability access!

[Aurellas]

This sounds tremendously interesting!

Thanks for bringing this to the forefront and opening up the discussion.

[Gothix]

This indeed sounds amazing, not only for disabled people, but having better sound experience benefits everybody really.

I'm just concerned about what kind of stress on the game would be produced by every single thing having unique sound. And what kind of space on players disk drives would that consume (not gonna mention on how long development time would be extended by doing this).

I'd personally be interested in seeing this upgrade down the line, post release, if game shows successful enough to warrant the investment, and if tests show game wouldn't be tangibly more stressed by this.

[Jetah]

@Gothix

world of warcraft, diablo 3 and overwatch have good audio fidelity, so I can't say it hurts it. to me it's more of the client/server registering where the sound came from to give the correct volume from a distance (unless the client can do all of that).

i understand waiting but you could get more disabled players if it's added before launch, they could even test it (i'd definitely be ok with them having alpha access!).

[islesofurth]

@Jetah
Iv'e not seen this person play, but i do know multiple people diagnosed "blind" personally.
And the level of blindness varies quite severely based on how they become blind.

My grandfather for instance was diagnosed blind after multiple strokes & is unable to see anything clearly. Regardless of what he is looking at it does not look like he remembers, because the nerves that send the signal to his brain have been effected.

A friend & work college on the other hand was diagnosed blind from a young age (from what she told me) her vision was patches & blurs. So she could still see clearly in certain spots, blurs in other spots & couldn't see at all in only some areas. (she had a guide dog companion as well). Technically she would be considered "low vision" & not "blind" but because people are only diagnosed once in their life. As long as she passes the blind test as a child (isn't hard) then she remains legally blind.

I don't know anyone who was diagnosed blind by burns to the eyes, but i do hear stories about it having happened since i use to work around chemicals a lot.
Obviously if you spill chemicals on your eyes it isn't going to be like daredevil, You can wash it off.
You would need to burn most of your face & possibly body or literally pour acid into your eyes to blind yourself that bad.

So sure having good sound effects would help a vision impaired person, or anyone for that matter in a combat situation or something similar.
However, Fractured has many other aspects that vision impaired people would struggle to cope with that simple sound effects would not suffice.

For example:
How do you expect a vision impaired person to understand the visual differences within the fauna & flora. (many plants looks similar, & many enemies do also)
This is a very interactive game, that would require the individual to know what they are looking for & understand where to get it.
Not being able to understand the visual differences in fauna & flora when inventory space is said to be very limited would be a huge setback for any vision impaired player.

then you have inventory management (those icons are tiny you realise & sound effects don't normally work well here)
Politics, trade & other social aspects of the game. How you expect the blind to deal with these (not everyone wants to stream or can for that matter)

But i do still believe they should add good sounds

[Jetah]

@islesofurth

screen readers already exist, although not in the DX11/12 or even game sense but it's heavy possible to have screen reader for the user when they mouse over or press a key to initiate the screen read (it'd be similar to using your phone where it reads everything but it'd focus more where the cursor is or the player is.). the hardest for a blind player will the gear and the tooltip. that part needs screen reading.

I just want to see disabled persons have access to video games. the internet is slowly coming around to it but having 1 game per genre that offers great audio cues, and screen read would be a great start.

the blind guy above said that gear drops in D3 are different between armor types and between armor and weapons. Again that would be different because of the looting of an actual mob, and not from the ground.

[islesofurth]

@Jetah said in Blind Gamer Plays WoW, CoD, MK11, D3 through Sound:

I just want to see disabled persons have access to video games. the internet is slowly coming around to it but having 1 game per genre that offers great audio cues, and screen read would be a great start.

I think you mean disadvantaged people, not disabled.

But honestly, anyone who streams is certainly not disadvantaged in anyway.

[Jetah]

@islesofurth said in Blind Gamer Plays WoW, CoD, MK11, D3 through Sound:

@Jetah said in Blind Gamer Plays WoW, CoD, MK11, D3 through Sound:

I just want to see disabled persons have access to video games. the internet is slowly coming around to it but having 1 game per genre that offers great audio cues, and screen read would be a great start.

I think you mean disadvantaged people, not disabled.

i'm pretty sure being blind is a disability. we have disability benefits here, not disadvantage benefits.

But honestly, anyone who streams is certainly not disadvantaged in anyway.

uh. https://www.twitch.tv/tj_the_blind_gamer
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/469077281 Mortal Kombat (fighting game)
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/467650834 COD:BO (FPS)
he has D3 (ARPG) but I didnt link those.

Now I have no proof he's blind other than what he says. Assuming he's blind. I promise you he doesn't have any advantages being blind.

[Xzoviac]

I Watched him play diablo once and for 10 mins he was running in to a corner rolling thinking he was moving, I think he is defenitly blind

[islesofurth]

@Jetah
not really what i was getting at.

You seem to want to help people who are disadvantaged.
some disabled people are more disadvantaged than others, while people who not even disabled are are far more disadvantaged than those who are disabled.

You have this guy who is a streamer, claims he needs support in the form of money etc... (not saying it is your blind guy)
he claims he can't find a job, cant work or do anything because of his "disability".
people jump in and help support this guy, feeling bad for him etc...
Despite the guy having a real disability & being able to work (despite his claims) it is far easier & more lucrative for him to beg for other peoples money.

On the other hand, you have people in many countries who work 12 hours plus 7 days of the week. Just so they can help their family to put basic food like rice & veggies on the table & cloth them each year.
it is often people like this that work so hard just to keep themselves alive that fall prey to beggars like MR streamer and his sob story.

If you really want to help people great, but just because they are disabled doesn't mean they need help.
Most who are, would actually refuse such help if offered. Not only that, but depending on how a person offers to help, it can actually be very offensive.

Just because a person is born with or receives a "disability" does not mean they should be treated any differently from any other person.
this includes compensations from their government unless strictly necessary as it only serves to alienate them further

[Xzoviac]

@islesofurth said in Blind Gamer Plays WoW, CoD, MK11, D3 through Sound:

@Jetah
not really what i was getting at.

You seem to want to help people who are disadvantaged.
some disabled people are more disadvantaged than others, while people who not even disabled are are far more disadvantaged than those who are disabled.

You have this guy who is a streamer, claims he needs support in the form of money etc... (not saying it is your blind guy)
he claims he can't find a job, cant work or do anything because of his "disability".
people jump in and help support this guy, feeling bad for him etc...
Despite the guy having a real disability & being able to work (despite his claims) it is far easier & more lucrative for him to beg for other peoples money.

On the other hand, you have people in many countries who work 12 hours plus 7 days of the week. Just so they can help their family to put basic food like rice & veggies on the table & cloth them each year.
it is often people like this that work so hard just to keep themselves alive that fall prey to beggars like MR streamer and his sob story.

If you really want to help people great, but just because they are disabled doesn't mean they need help.
Most who are, would actually refuse such help if offered. Not only that, but depending on how a person offers to help, it can actually be very offensive.

Just because a person is born with or receives a "disability" does not mean they should be treated any differently from any other person.
this includes compensations from their government unless strictly necessary as it only serves to alienate them further

Think your missing the point mate, a person with extremely limited sight, is going to find gameing hard, as gamers, we all know how much we love the world we are part of.
Everyone just wants to try make gaming inclusive to all types of people
( that actually want to be a part of the gaming world not just change it towards weird ideologys)

It's about wanting to help a small grp that couldn't play with out the added sound effects.

It dosent matter if they are in good or bad places financially.

It's like putting ramps next to stairs

Or having the man/woman on catch up omnibuses for daytime dramas on the weekend doing sign language.

[islesofurth]

@Xzoviac said in Blind Gamer Plays WoW, CoD, MK11, D3 through Sound:

It's like putting ramps next to stairs

Or having the man/woman on catch up omnibuses for daytime dramas on the weekend doing sign language.

No its actually not

I am well aware of the point of this post & I have already stated why it is a bad idea for this particular game
But then again, you seem to have completely missed that post. (no surprises there)

If @Jetah really wanted to help blind people then he would be trying to rally support for the Screen Reader software to get its Direct X support updated.
You just don't ask individual dev teams to go far out of their way to support very small groups that are not likely to play there game & could be far better supported by other companies.

it is great to help people, but you can do it the right way, the wrong way & the really wrong way.
this is the really wrong way.

[Gothix]

I still think it would be way too big investment, for something like this to be done pre-release.

If game is successful enough, alongside the upgrades later on, part by part, sure.

[Jetah]

@islesofurth

i've seen developer support the Linux community which has less than 1% of the OS. now if they could take that and focus it toward physical disabilities instead then we'd have more games accessible to gamers.

and this isn't about a lazy able individual trying to be a professional gamer.

[PeachMcD]

@Gothix said in Blind Gamer Plays WoW, CoD, MK11, D3 through Sound:

I still think it would be way too big investment, for something like this to be done pre-release.

If game is successful enough, alongside the upgrades later on, part by part, sure.

+1 This is exactly the kind of aspirational update that's great to have on the devs' radar, so the development trajectory can avoid putting in obstacles.

Even if it's not financially justifiable to make these features available in alpha/beta, there are decisions being made now that can make the features needed by folks who are blind/deaf/etc either easier or harder to deploy in the long run. So thanks for raising the question even if it doesn't end up being part of the initial release.

[islesofurth]

@Jetah said in Blind Gamer Plays WoW, CoD, MK11, D3 through Sound:

i've seen developer support the Linux community which has less than 1% of the OS.

Regardless of having seen a developer or developers support a small community that uses Linux,
you have not provided any information on this community or what they actually did.
So it is highly doubtful that it reached less than 1% and that you simply don't understand.
Not only that but those who support Linux do so for what Linux has the potential to become. (different to the current situation)

@PeachMcD, @Jetah

@Gothix said in Blind Gamer Plays WoW, CoD, MK11, D3 through Sound:

I still think it would be way too big investment, for something like this to be done pre-release.
If game is successful enough, alongside the upgrades later on, part by part, sure.

Sure you would think that right?
But then that is only because you don't understand the cost involved in maintaining the game or the cost the developers took when they decided to work full time on the game.
Or are you insinuating that the very few people who would benefit from it are actually blind & are far more important than not only the developers but also the masses of other people also playing the game & would benefit far more from content that the developers could have created with that time & money.
None of it would even matter if the software the blind people use doesn't even keep up to date with the games updates either. (forcing either more work from the devs or making it worthless)

So you really still think this is a brilliant idea?
Oh & I dunno if you realised but, all those games mr blind plays, are all super heavy combat games. (this is not a heavy combat game)
So even if he could play it, doubt he will for long.

[Gothix]

Every single player would benefit from "better" "more immersive" "super accurate" sounds, not just blind players...

I'm just saying that costs in development could be too great, and that this should only be considered if game becomes successful enough so this can be afforded.

[islesofurth]

@Gothix True, except who is to say we were not getting such sounds to begin with?

You have to remember that this game is not going to be all about combat, so it is much harder to balance the music to begin with.
This is more of an exploration builder with combat. despite the amount of combat the way combat is handled is only secondary to the exploration.

So creating music that starts when your in combat or something to alert you when your in combat is a bit tricky since the real question is. When are you actually considered in combat. then based on that, does the music fade in or instantly start.

Having dynamic music isn't hard, it is just that there are 100's of different ways you can set it up & it is very time consuming getting it to work the right way.

Anyway, i'm sure this is something dynamite studios will be putting in. However don't expect over the top sound effects and what not considering they are only a small team.

[Jetah]

@Gothix said in Blind Gamer Plays WoW, CoD, MK11, D3 through Sound:

Every single player would benefit from "better" "more immersive" "super accurate" sounds, not just blind players...

I'm just saying that costs in development could be too great, and that this should only be considered if game becomes successful enough so this can be afforded.

we all know if it isn't added at launch then it'll never be added. i dont see why accessibility has to wait till after release.

[PeachMcD]

@Jetah said

we all know if it isn't added at launch then it'll never be added. i dont see why accessibility has to wait till after release.

I'd beg to differ. I don't mean to be argumentative, Big J, I just don't know that, since I've seen lots of things amended as games evolve.

I'm hopeful that the devs, as they get their basic game ready for launch, will endeavor not to place any obstacles in the way of accessibility - no matter what the %age of persons using those options - simply because it's the right thing to do.

If there are minimal obstacles to accessibility at launch, only the severely disabled will be excluded. Mr. Blind Gamer may be able to play using the game as is. I don't know what MBG's needs actually are. Future upgrades could easily add accessibility features or any other features the devs decide they want to add.

What would stop that from happening? I don't consider pure venality to be the default position, so I can't see the point of assuming that's the case.