Real Crafting
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@Roccandil said in Real Crafting:
But how are the victorious demons going to sell anything in Arboreus?
They can sell it in Syndesia, and then whoever bought it there can take it to Arboreus and sell it.
Details don't matter, in the end resources will end up at another planet, how their path in between will look like doesn't matter.
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@Jetah said in Real Crafting:
If demons attack the transport they dont have to bring it anywhere.
It doesn't make sense not to take valuable loot once you killed previous owners... but even if we assume that for some reason someone left it on the ground, anyone passing through later on can still pick it up and take it. IF nothing else old owners can return to check if it's still there.
There will be no "wasted loot".
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The path affects difficulty, expense, and ultimately supply. As long as the supply of certain resources is low, crafters won't be able to infinitely craft the best of everything.
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@Roccandil at this game stuff doesn't need to be infinitely crafted, because items aren't bound, and they can change hands. So once an area is saturated with items crafting will die out. People will just need to steal form one another.
Even if crafting continues, it will be "dry" and will bring nothing new and unique. Since everyone was able to craft everything, it was just matter of time until market is saturated.
The only way to avoid that is to:
- make items decay over time and be destroyed
- make everyone not be able to craft everything (which will mandate stronger need for trading)
- make crafting custom depending on different factors
I know crafting loving people (specially solo players) would love to be able to do everything on their own, but that is just bringing the whole game quality down by a notch.
Yes i know we might not end up having crafting like this, but i'm just expressing my opinion here, including some facts (with which you may not wish to agree with) but which doesn't make them any less true.
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@Gothix I thought you were against restrictions in sandbox games..
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I assume potions will be consumables, so I don't see an issue there. If a percentage of crafted gear is destroyed in PvP (like Albion), that would be an awesome sink, and should take care of the rest.
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@Gothix said in Real Crafting:
@Jetah said in Real Crafting:
If demons attack the transport they dont have to bring it anywhere.
It doesn't make sense not to take valuable loot once you killed previous owners... but even if we assume that for some reason someone left it on the ground, anyone passing through later on can still pick it up and take it. IF nothing else old owners can return to check if it's still there.
There will be no "wasted loot".
it doesn't make any sense to keep it either. if i killed you i will be taking your gear. that's my reward. you're my pve, your gear is my reward. that's how rpgs work!
fractured will have to have decay based on use and death. there's no other way around it. and repairs shouldn't allow the item to exist infinitely. DAoC had 2 bars for gear. one for wear, which could be increased via repair and conc (forget the full name) which decayed by death, use and repairs. it was actually better to repair often because the conc decay wouldn't be as fast.
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Perhaps all items could (even if there are no repairs) have a limited lifetime (you could see how much lifetime item has when you inspect it).
At the end of lifetime, item would just break into a percentage of base materials from which it was created, which would then just fall to the ground near you (for the effect).
You run around through forest and suddenly crack ... 2 stones and a piece of wood on ground near you. "Oh crap that was my sword".
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I tend to not like decay-based sinks: they devolve into chores.
That's why using PvP as a sink for gear is brilliant, in my opinion: if I die, I don't care that some of my gear was trashed and removed from the game, and if I kill, I still get loot!
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problem is the game has pve too for the Beastkin. There needs a way for them to replace gear too.
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There is some other options for item sinks on top of decay:
- Salvage
- Research
- Crafting
- Repair
- Loot drops PvE
Possibility to salvage items back to portion of resources is a really effective feature.
There could be research feature, which is used to investigate item to find a crafting recipe or part of it. Item itself will be destroyed in process.
Some finished items could be used as ingredients for other items.
Some items could be used for repairing others.
There could be hardcore PvE content where some mobs/creatures/bosses are lethal and will not just knockdown players, but also tries to execute them. That leads to loot drops and trashed items like in PvP.
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Anything but chores!
I don't want to see items decaying unless they're being used.
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@Roccandil said in Real Crafting:
Anything but chores!
I don't want to see items decaying unless they're being used.I agree with you. I understand if items will need repairing when used and even eventually come to the point and break, but items which are not used should stay permanent.
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Rather than seeing the need to craft stuff be for negative reasons to keep the market going, such as loss of items and item decay, I'd rather see positive reasons. These being items that require special materials, materials that have several stat components that when crafted then create marginal random results on the item for those stats based upon your skill and a random roll. Randomness is part of life. Even machine crafted products on an assembly line do not all come out on the end as the same product. Random things affect the process you just can't always control. If you have several stats on your items then this creates very different products among players. UO went over to a system like this. It made my market quite interesting. I had players who sought different armor penetration qualities on their weapons and armor. PvP players had a different need than PvE players it seemed. The devs talked about imbuing with magic also. That seems like a possibility to manipulate those stats even further which then means even different final products. All of this means very different results from crafter to crafter.
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No RNG please.
Thanks.
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but i also hate static too. knowing the outcome for everything isn't great of a system either.
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But I like emergent complexity from deterministic rulesets (like chess).
The rulesets themselves don't even need to be complex to become humanly impossible to know all outcomes!
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but it's a fantasy game which shouldn't have hard rules like that. use your imagination a little and explore! rules just limit imagination! (actually thought this was another topic but i'll leave it).
crafting can have unexpected results until you get a system down. most products aren't here from one prototype, they've taken hundreds or thousands iterations. sometimes you change 1 thing to see how it comes out. sometimes you change multiple things.
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I see the world exactly the opposite: rules are a map, that allow you to explore places you couldn't otherwise reach.
Perhaps that comes from my study of Bach: without rules, music is a mess, but once you start creating rules, you get emergent order that you couldn't have imagined (like fugues!).
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I favor order over chaos.
Granted, this order needs to be just, and rules need to be set so that they are based on logic.
I hate rules that are skewed in such way to force the balance among the players.I also hate RNG from the depths of my soul. RNG makes it impossible for you to progress and get better, because no matter what you do, RNG is RNG.
So i prefer game without any amount of RNG.
A game should have complex rules that aren't obvious at start, and require you to invest your time, and use your brain in order to understand them. Gaining the understanding of all the rules shouldn't be an easy task, it should require significant effort, and i can't stress this enough, RNG shouldn't be included there in any amount whatsoever.
