Abilities, Talents and Attributes

  • Hello.

    I find Fractured really iteresting project but I there is one point what makes for me this game not so fine.

    System of Abilities and Talents allow us dynamically adjust our character so we can adjust it to content we plan do. It create situation, where with one charakcter we can go fight against creatures or against other players. And in this point we come to Attributes - if we cannot dynamicly adjust these points our character loose all this possibility. Other Attributes sets can be best in PvE, and other in PvP contect. Second point - it freeze our charater in one role. I would like to have a chance change the role depend what content I do and it is disadventeges for me, that I need for that more than 1 character.

  • Content Creator

    @Shins This is not exactly true.

    You are not locked into a role, because your role can be defined by your gear, your Talent set, and your Skill set. Yes, you can be optimal to only some builds, and suboptimal in others based on how you set up your attributes, but overall, each role can be played with different attribute combinations.

    A bowman can change out to melee talents, and switch to a more dex based melee weapon set and still gain advantage from having a higher dex over strength. They won't Tank super well, and depending on how much they put into Intelligence and Charisma, they won't be quite as optimal in Magical support classes of course. The thing is, if you focus on your main attribute, then you try to focus after that on an alternate attribute, you can bridge the gap quite a bit. Alternately, you could balance out your attributes and not be truly optimal at any one role, but you would be equally well suited to all the roles.

    It doesn't make sense to let players hot swap attributes in the game. That basically invalidates the whole attribute system in the first place. You quite literally would turn every character into the same thing, a doppleganger/mimic that swaps as they need, but basically has no personal identity whatsoever.

    If you are going to do that, you might as well just set all the attributes to the same average value, and play that way (which is an option) as you don't want to play up to any personal strengths, which is what attributes reflect.

    Being able to hot-swap Talents and Skills by just visiting a fireplace gives you quite a bit of customization. You can have 5 presets for each, 5 skill sets, and 5 talent sets. They use the same points, so you don't have to worry about getting 5 times the KP to pull it off in regards to Talents, you do have to unlock all the skills you want to use, it is true, but they are all available. If you don't start with an archetype, you can find that archetype's base skills to unlock in the wild.

    There is a limit to how much 'total freedom' the game should allow. Fractured fulfills that niche well.

  • There is no sens play class not base on your attributes. It is just useless. Game let us create multiple character, so optimally if I want be able to swap class I play I just need grind and train more than one character. I think that grind is the worst element of any MMORPG game, because it just force you to brainless and boring achieving "exp points". I see no any serious reason to not allow players have flexible class changing when they once unlock all abilities and talents. In my opinion players should have easy possibility to dynamic class change with maksimum effectivness on these classes. This allow us use "late-game" content without grinding some much and focus our activities on most interesting elements of MMO game - fighting with other people or clearing high level monsters or dungeons (if exist in game). Really - why not allow people have fun with lots of different gameplay on all roles in party?

    One thing more. I can say it is a little right, than in situation, that attributes can be change dynamically actual system has small sanse. Game is in alpha, so I think there is time to change it and check if another system of attributes could be more flexible and not make limits in class changing.

  • Content Creator

    @Shins See, that's where your looking at this wrong.

    Fractured doesn't have classes You choose an initial Build option, like an archetype, however, you are in no way locked into the archetype you choose at the start, so in effect, you can hot swap your 'class' as it were. Just as I explained above

    Being able to dynamically change your ability scores on a whim basically eliminates individuality totally. If you can just change that whenever, then you might as well all just play a generic mook, that you change every time you want to. Every single character becomes the exact same character. It's like having a fleet of characters of every description, and everyone else having the same, and just choosing which one to go with.

    The Build system and Attributes, on the other hand, allows the players to choose how they want to start a character. If they want to start another character, they have multiple slots, to start with different builds, but really, Fractured isn't grindy at all when you do go to flesh out your characters. Your characters are effective from day one. They just get more choices as they go along, and there is no experience point grind. In fact, every mob has a finite amount of KP it will give you before it reaches 100%.

    Attributes affect your skills and abilities, but they don't rule over them. Everyone doesn't need to be min/maxed out on every single build they want on a single character. Attributes build the basic starting block. It shows the strengths and weaknesses you are starting with, so you can possibly build towards a strength, being slightly better at related roles, but slightly worse in all others, but not hopeless in any (unless you dump stat something, and even then, there are more than one ways to play towards a role in Fractured.)

    Every Attribute has meaning this way. Putting them on a slider means essentially they carry no meaning whatsoever, and are just a temporary suit you put on. Where's the fun, realism, or true gameplay in that. That would quickly get boring.

    The game also doesn't have a lot of late-game kind of content planned. There is some, but the point of fractured is the whole game is open to every player from day one. You don't have to build to late-game ability, it is already there. Even building and advancing a city can be done in just a short period of time, thus maxing out the potential for its citizens.

    The primary 'late game' content planned in Fractured is Asteroid Raids, and group City Raids and Sieges. That is how the game is configured.

    I'm not trying to be negative here. however, there is a level where customizing gets to be so possible, that nobody creates an individual character, so you can't stand out at all. Then everyone just picks the total optimum build for the situation they are going into, and there is no challenge to it.

  • I am pretty sure, that people who will decide play long time will create several characters and I am sure that build of best players will be similar, because the best configuration is just the best. If you want play game "correctly" you will change your build to one of the most optimal. Of corse - some people will have random build, but if you want play seriously then it will be more efective to not loose, because mages in your party have low inteligence and tanks had no constitution. In my opinion differences should make only skill of player, not how much time you have to make new characters.

    Of corse not everyone will have to be min/maxers, but people who will create main life in game will be. If not - they will loose.

    Of corse Fractured do not define class, but it does not mean, that classes does not exist. If you create a party you have to think who will be dealing dmg, you have to think who will be responsible for crowd control or tanking. And if you want to conquer lands it will be easiest if everyone will bring characters with attributes correct to their role. And it will be lika that - in the strongest guilds main forces will not come with tank having 10 in strangh, because it make weak all party. Freezing attributes will have only one effect - players will have swaping between characters, but characters will be build this way, to make them most effective. It will only force people to spend more time on scoring knowledge poinst on alternative characters. It will not change fact, that peaople building their characters with optimal attributes, talenst and abilities will have bigger chance to win than peaople who play on their own build not connected to roles they actually have. It is stright way to force people to grinding.

    We can have a look on Albion Online. AO is game where you do not have to choose class/race. All characters are identical in "base". Skills are adjusted by items you have, and build is define only by them. What we can look at zvz (mass players fight) that every main zerg have their own composition. There is no situation, that everyone play identical items. Lots of people use not most effective build just for fun. And some builds are strong only combine with another one. Of corse some combinations are better other combinations are not so strong, but still possibility to full rebuild of character in all ways did not kill there some individuality. Fractured have chance do the same and even more. In AO we need spent lots of time on grinding, because increasing lvl of usage items boost them, whats mean you need really long time to max your character. Fracture have chance to completly skip most of grinding and I wish to see F do this, not see next game, where you have to decide what your character will do and max it only that way, and create tens of alternative charaters who will be responsible for another role in party.

    I would not agree also that gameplay where you have complete possibility to changing all of elements of your build is boring. In my opinion your worries about boring gameplay where you can freely experiment with your full build is unreasonable. If you are "casual" player, have no lots of time to create more characters it is easier for you to create satisfactionary build if you can check how effective is in every combination you imagine that have to decide on one build and play with weak charackter becouse your idea was not so good. Boring is focusing on one way and be weak in all other, where no one will be treat you seriously if you will not have "correct" build.

    Other hand there is nothing more frustrating when I see that I could win against someone, but I loose because I created wrong build and can do nithing to repair it. I know, that for now we can respec once per week, but still it is not enought in my opinion - I could not be usefull for my guild in every situation if can make build only for one of them. In my opinion differences betwenn effectiveness of players should be only their skill and how much time they spend learning cooperating and correct usage of skills, not their builds and decisions that they want facus more on small fight or sieges or another content.

  • Moderator

    A few points on this.

    First, attributes don't really matter that much. You clearly shouldn't try to cast spells if you have INT 8, but 14-15 is already quite hard to distinguish from a full fledged 18 INT caster.
    Currently I play a build where the attributes are 10 15 15 15 10 15. It works perfectly and at top performance in many roles.
    That's because in Fractured no archetype is based on a single attribute. Warriors needs Strenght, Dexterity, Consitution, Perception and Charisma. They all contribute to swinging your weapon.
    Mages need Constitution, Perception, Intelligence and Charisma. Dexterity helps too.
    Archers need Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Perception and Charisma. Same for Street rats.
    Out of 6 attributes in the game, you always need at the very least 4.
    So, can I run a mage with 14 INT? Yes I can, and it will be as good as a 18 INT mage, It will just be built and played differently, leaning more on the other mage stats apart from INT.

    This was actually made possible by this last alpha. In the previous one, the attributes were far more effective at "locking" you into a specific role, since there was a big bonus that unlocked when reaching 20 in an attribute. I actually made an identical post to yours in the past, because I felt it actually was an issue. With this last design of attributes though, I no longer have problems with it.

    Second point, you CAN respec the attribute points. In the tests you have a free respec every week. In the release you will have one free respec for each char.

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