My thoughts on karma and 'justice'


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    I am sorta split on this test in terms of PvP. So many people are butthurt for being ganked. Gankers are butthurt for being punished for being killed for ganking others. Alot of players don't seem to think ahead with where they are going, in terms of PvP threat, getting themselves killed, because they either are used to previous tests, where PvP was opt-in and a non-threat, or they don't want to deal with PvP in the first place?

    By choosing the places I go to farm carefully, I have all but avoided all PvP and ganking, because, if you think about it and plan ahead, it's pretty easy to determine where PvP is going to be an issue. The map even calls them 'hotspots'. Seems self explanatory if you ask me...

    BUT!! I also feel some of the changes I have heard about are rediculous. I feel like Karma resetting when you go to prison, makes 0 sense whatsoever. If a criminal irl goes to prison... they are kept tabs on for the rest of their life, in case it happens again.

    I also feel that the whole Shrine thing is stupid. Having taverns as respawn points was amazing. You could do it anywhere. You didn't need to find a city that actually decided to spend a tech point on it (which i don't even know if any did, besides Duath). Choosing your Karma is stupid as well. It should be Dynamic like the game is supposed to be. I should be able to go from good to evil to good to evil based on my actions. Not by the click of a few buttons on a building.

    I don't remember where I posted it... but I feel like city based tech is stupid. It should be player based instead, so each individual person can specialise. Players should be able to do quests or something to unlock personal research points, based on the rank of the city they are part of (whether it be resident or citizen). There is too much stuff being locked behind a wall, that I feel shouldn't be there in the first place.

    I also feel that if a player has too low a karma when they are caught... they should NOT be able to be bailed out.
    The cost of bail should also change based on how 'dangerous' they are. Lower karma = higher cost (until their karma gets too low and can't be bailed at all).


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    I will address a few of these points.

    First one, why we need a shrine (or whatever building) to switch alignment before we go out?

    The games that don't have this system are asking for it to be implemented. The problem is that when you are out there hunting, and see a player which is clearly preparing to kill you, you can't pre-emptively attack, since that would make YOU the aggressor. It is a situation which puts the victim at a huge disadvantage, he has to wait for the other one to make the first move.
    By forcing you to declare your intent (good or evil) before leaving the city, you even the scales. Now if you see a red player when you are hunting, you can strike at him without issue, removing that unfair disadvantage.

    Second one, why karma should reset when you go to prison?

    This is a more complex one. Mostly it is made to allow a player to stop being red, which otherwise could be so hard to achieve that he could leave the game. It offers a way out of that playstyle.
    Now, there are a few issues with that. The biggest one is that the current implementation is extremely easy to exploit. You can clean the karma of anyone at zero cost, so things obviously need to change. What I suggest is that the karma gets reset, but if the player turns again evil at a shrine in the next week, his karma is reset at the previous levels. To clear his tab, he needs to be a good guy for at least a week.

    As for the shrine part, I think that all T1 techs being completed should be a requirement to advance to rank 5.


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    If you are hunting and see a player prepping to kill you though, they are likely already red. With the system I proposed, even a -1 in karma would have someone be red. This could even be achieved by attacking a player that isn't red, even if said player escapes.

    I can understand a karma reset... but maybe a system like passive karma decay could be implemented? spend X amount of time online and your karma will get 1000 closer to zero. If a player REALLY wants to have good karma, after experiencing the consequences of being evil... they can always wait inside a town 🙂


  • DymStudios - CEO

    @Xzait said in My thoughts on karma and 'justice':

    By choosing the places I go to farm carefully, I have all but avoided all PvP and ganking, because, if you think about it and plan ahead, it's pretty easy to determine where PvP is going to be an issue. The map even calls them 'hotspots'. Seems self explanatory if you ask me...

    This is correct, ganking is avoidable if your aim is farming gold.... but if you want to get skills for a new character, or to complete an existing one past the Young status, it's unavoidable. That's likely the biggest issue right now, but we're hard working on ways to deal with it 🙂

    @spoletta said in My thoughts on karma and 'justice':

    Now, there are a few issues with that. The biggest one is that the current implementation is extremely easy to exploit. You can clean the karma of anyone at zero cost, so things obviously need to change. What I suggest is that the karma gets reset, but if the player turns again evil at a shrine in the next week, his karma is reset at the previous levels. To clear his tab, he needs to be a good guy for at least a week.

    This is something we've been considering - just setting the alignment to Good without setting Karma to 0, to allow the criminal to continue as a Good player but taking away the exploitable part. It might make it in a future patch 🙂


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