Spell crafting
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@Logain said in Spell crafting:
@Jetah said in Spell crafting:
(...)if you want to build a house, you need materials(...)
Actually, Fractured even advertises as not needing grind.
I'm sorry but there will be a grind regardless what the developers say. If DS can make that grind seem like it's part of a play secession will determine how successful player retention is.
spells might not say "kill 200 mobs" but we know that's what we'll need to do to learn that spell. I've seen it disguised as a percent bar instead of a number bar. IE you kill 10 mobs and you gain 1% then you know you'll need to kill 100 which is no different than seeing 10/100 bar.
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"on Fractured grinding (repeating the same action over and over) is not the way you earn Knowledge Points. On the opposite, their acquisition takes place naturally during the course of your gaming sessions – and the more varied are the things you do, the better!"
This ^^ is how Fractured determines grind. And like we know, Fractured is marketing itself as no grind game. This can be a little bit misleading though, because grind can be think as time you need to use to progress next level. So Fractured goals to make that grind more enjoyable, but it is still there like @Jetah mentioned. Under here is plan how knowledge system and ability progression are planned to implement:
"Abilities, however, are not only meant to be learnt once, since they feature up to 3 levels of power! Completing only 2 tasks of a Discovered ability allows you to study an ability to level 1. After that, you need to have at least 4 tasks completed to study it to level 2 and 6 tasks completed to study it to level 3."
So as we can see, the progression is tide under different tasks. Now how grindy this system at the end will be depends on what these tasks exactly contains and how much time and effort players needs to see to accomplish those.
https://fracturedmmo.com/feature-spotlight-3-knowledge-system/
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@Jetah said in Spell crafting:
(...)I'm sorry but there will be a grind regardless what the developers say(...)
The problem is the difference in the definition of the term 'grind' when it comes to people.
@Jetah said in Spell crafting:
(...)I've seen it disguised as a percent bar instead of a number bar. IE you kill 10 mobs and you gain 1% then you know you'll need to kill 100 which is no different than seeing 10/100 bar.
That's not how things are supposed to work in Fractured tough. It's important that we differentiate between 'unlocking' and gaining 'knowledge points'. Since you can redistribute your knowledge points during a resting phase (which you need in order to change your hotbar anyway), the main point of importance for the competitive gamer is turning a spell's state from unknown to discovered.
According to the spotlight on this feature:
'(...)Ability learning tasks never require you to repeat the same action for hours. Instead, they’re designed encourage you to explore and travel – rewarding cleverness and bravery, not time spent grinding(...)'@Tuoni said in Spell crafting:
(...)Knowledge Points(...)
Knowledge points are of lesser importance, since they can be redistributed across discovered spells.
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explore and travel is a repeat action though. they have to program the knowledge somehow and it's usually done via nods (World of Warcraft uses invisible bunnies) which the user has to find. Once located it could be possible it's the same for everyone and that location can be sold.
it'll be interesting how it works out and who's to say those bars aren't invisible to the user so it seems like gaining knowledge is 'magical' not 'methodical'.
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@Logain said in Spell crafting:
@Tuoni said in Spell crafting:
(...)Knowledge Points(...)
Knowledge points are of lesser importance, since they can be redistributed across discovered spells.
I am not sure what is your point here? Did I claim otherwise or? Could you open up it a bit?
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@Jetah said in Spell crafting:
(...)explore (...)location can be sold(...)
See, that's the difference in the definition of the term 'grinding' I was talking about. Yes, locations can become common knowledge (every successful game develops plenty of wiki/hint/guide pages), but exploration is usually not considered 'grind' by the majority of players.
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@Logain said in Spell crafting:
@Jetah said in Spell crafting:
(...)explore (...)location can be sold(...)
See, that's the difference in the definition of the term 'grinding' I was talking about. Yes, locations can become common knowledge (every successful game develops plenty of wiki/hint/guide pages), but exploration is usually not considered 'grind' by the majority of players.
You are absolutly right there.. Its called walking simulator.
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@Meiki said in Spell crafting:
@Tuoni said in Spell crafting:
You are absolutly right there.. Its called walking simulator.
Which is still a grind - you are grinding virtual step count or virtual visas count or poi count
whatever you prefer to call it. But if all is laid out evenly and in fun way, why not. I do not mind a little grind as long as it is fun. 
Agreed. That is kind of the truth. Like mentioned before, it just depends how to define term grind, because to different people grind means different things. Thats why devs were careful and they actually defined what grind means to them.
It does not actually matter much how people defines word grind. In every case there is one thing which binds point of views together; Time consumed. It does not matter how we grind, but how long we need to grind. That is what eventually matter most. Okay, in many cases just repeating same activity over and over again can fall you for boredom more quickly. Still tje result is same.
I do not personally mind to do some grinding, but I hope that most of my playtime wont just go for mindless grind and need of progression. Albion was actually too much that. So I hope devs does not just play with word grind and we can progress with decent grind (time used).
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@Tuoni
exploration aside, combat and crafting should be pretty obvious how to gain skill points and knowledge.
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@Jetah Thats true and kind of norm, so people are surely okay with that. However, because DS advertises this less grind, maybe they have something special in their sleeves.
What it comes to tasks.. Repeatable killing can be avoided e.g. combining killing with exploration. Meaning if you would need to kill 100 creatures to complete a task, it could be changed need to kill 10 different kind of creatures in different locations. Or why not those task could be quest chains with different kind activities related to that specific ability.
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@Tuoni said in Spell crafting:
(...)However, because DS advertises this less grind, maybe they have something special in their sleeves(...)
We already know what they 'have up their sleeves' if you read through the spotlight on the topic?
@Tuoni said in Spell crafting:
(...)Repeatable killing can be avoided e.g. combining killing with exploration. Meaning if you would need to kill 100 creatures to complete a task, it could be changed need to kill 10 different kind of creatures in different locations(...)
Every ability has a list of 6 tasks associated with it. Once you accomplish 2 of these, the ability is 'discovered'/unlocked. In order to get from Level 1 to 2 and from 2 to 3 for a specific ability, you need to accomplish 4/6 of these tasks. Examples of tasks would be: Find, interact with, or kill specific creatures - Kill some specific creatures in a unique way - Find, collect or refine some amount of a specific resource - Consume X units of a specific item - Be hit X times by a specific spell -
Perform a specific combat action X times - Explore one or more world locations.
Rest in a specific location - Craft X units of a specific item - Die in a specific way.
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@Logain I know all this, but we don't know what those task will eventually contain. We have maybe seen one example and I guess most are not even done yet. However, if all tasks will be line with that example then we might have nice system at use. Still we do not know how much time and effort these tasks will take and that will eventually determine how grindy (time consuming) this system will be.
