About the VIP membership


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    @Jetah Devs will not allow $$ to gold transfer, and people that go around that (by using 3rd party websites or whatever else) for this purpose will get banned. As simple as that. Yes you can try it, same like you can commit crime IRL, but GL if you get caught. Devs can not prevent people sending each other cash over paypal, and trading gold, but they can certainly ban them when they catch them.

    Not to mention that if you go and do that you not only risk your account getting banned, but you also risk getting screwed for your cash by other player, so GL with that.

    Generating in game gold from RL cash is P2W, because, as @Target explained to you you can (besides gear, consumables, materials,...) also buy player services with ingame gold (mercenary services etc.).

    Now you might be lazy or have no time to actually play to get gold, but that's (guess what) your own problem. If you want P2W game where you can convert money for ingame gold then you will need to go and play something else.

    I'd also advice Prometheus to keep an eye on you (when game releases) since obviously you have such intents.


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    @gothix said in About the VIP membership:

    @Jetah Devs will not allow $$ to gold transfer, and people that go around that (by using 3rd party websites or whatever else) for this purpose will get banned. As simple as that. Yes you can try it, same like you can commit crime IRL, but GL if you get caught. Devs can not prevent people sending each other cash over paypal, and trading gold, but they can certainly ban them when they catch them.

    Not to mention that if you go and do that you not only risk your account getting banned, but you also risk getting screwed for your cash by other player, so GL with that.

    Generating in game gold from RL cash is P2W, because, as @Target explained to you you can (besides gear, consumables, materials,...) also buy player services with ingame gold (mercenary services etc.).

    Now you might be lazy or have no time to actually play to get gold, but that's (guess what) your own problem. If you want P2W game where you can convert money for ingame gold then you will need to go and play something else.

    I'd also advice Prometheus to keep an eye on you (when game releases) since obviously you have such intents.

    the resources spent to find that out is much more than just allowing the VIP to be traded for gold via a UI. I'm sorry but others will see the P2W regardless because anyone can sell everything via 3rd parties.

    it will be possible to buy a whole town if you want to, via 3rd party. as long as trading exist there will be P2W! I'm sorry that you're too blinded by what the Dev's said to realize that. Of course DS won't sell items directly but anyone can farm to craft a weapon or armor then sell it on ebay or other sites.


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    @jetah said in About the VIP membership:

    the resources spent to find that out is much more than just allowing the VIP to be traded for gold via a UI. I'm sorry but others will see the P2W regardless because anyone can sell everything via 3rd parties.

    it will be possible to buy a whole town if you want to, via 3rd party. as long as trading exist there will be P2W! I'm sorry that you're too blinded by what the Dev's said to realize that. Of course DS won't sell items directly but anyone can farm to craft a weapon or armor then sell it on ebay or other sites.

    Who ever is willing to risk getting banned, or to risk his cash going to waste while not getting what he payed for (due to seller screwing him up), or in worst cases getting his CC info stolen by malware-ous 3rd party sites, can be my guest and go try to "buy the whole town". ๐Ÿ™‚

    Even if some "crimes" (regardless of their magnitude, both in RL or online) are too hard to detect, that is not a reason to say "ok then, since we can't find many offenders.. lets go ahead and allow those crimes...", that's just crazy. I can't even understand that sort of thinking...

    I guess not all of us think the same.

    For me, even if people that will attempt "various stuff against the TOS" exist (and they do in all MMOs), it's enough that I know that they risk both their account banned and their cash too (and more, depending on who they deal with). I will play the game and occasionally read in updates how many players got banned due to this and ended up losing everything. I will feel good each time I read about a new batch of such people, and will smile when I see them cry in forums. ๐Ÿ™‚

    Have a nice day.


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    @gothix
    there are virtual credit card numbers you can use to make payments to those sites. you can set a limit on that specific "card" so they can't spend more than that. (I actually use this for all online spending)

    people wanting to spend cash to win don't care if they lose their account because they probably have multiple accounts.



  • Well i like to think at VIPS as the EVE\WoW subscrition pack. Is not a p2w thing, and at the end of the month can give the rights numbers to the dev team to go on too. Yes you buy ingame currency that way, but if you sell 100 subs the price of the sub will decrease drastically, and if none is selling it, it will increase its price. For me this situation can be a Win\win, and as stated is just a boost and some cosmetics so you are not selling directly power as for exemple the last sub plan of L2 classic server.. 10% damage pve, drop increase 35% ecc..


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    @00 ingame gold is power. It doesn't buy only gear (as much as you want, every time you lose it so you have no downtime on playing) it also buys consumables, materials, and player services mercenary protection, mercenary force for sieges, and so on.

    Ingame gold IS P2W, if you can convert real money into it. And you can if you are able to sell sub items (or any cash shop items) in exchange for in game gold.

    May I suggest Rift, Allods Online, Wildstar or other similar games for those of you who like such a thing.

    (Whoever wants to play Fractured, please grow some skills and then play, rather then relying on P2W. Thank you.)


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    @gothix said in About the VIP membership:

    @00 ingame gold is power. It doesn't buy only gear (as much as you want, every time you lose it so you have no downtime on playing) it also buys consumables, materials, and player services mercenary protection, mercenary force for sieges, and so on.

    Ingame gold IS P2W, if you can convert real money into it. And you can if you are able to sell sub items (or any cash shop items) in exchange for in game gold.

    May I suggest Rift, Allods Online, Wildstar or other similar games for those of you who like such a thing.

    (Whoever wants to play Fractured, please grow some skills and then play, rather then relying on P2W. Thank you.)

    On the other hand paying 10$ for vip is pay2win. If it could be bought with in game currency it wouldn't be pay2win because free players could also get it. If vip subscription can't be bought with in game currency, u need to spend 10$ a month to win -> pay2win. If it can be bought with in game currency u don't need to spend 10$ to win.


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    @gothix said in About the VIP membership:

    @00 ingame gold is power. It doesn't buy only gear (as much as you want, every time you lose it so you have no downtime on playing) it also buys consumables, materials, and player services mercenary protection, mercenary force for sieges, and so on.

    Ingame gold IS P2W, if you can convert real money into it. And you can if you are able to sell sub items (or any cash shop items) in exchange for in game gold.

    May I suggest Rift, Allods Online, Wildstar or other similar games for those of you who like such a thing.

    gold isn't power unless we have abilities that use Gold as a resource.

    gear is power. oddly enough Wildstar has PLEX/Tokens/VIP too! but it was never considered P2W.

    it's better for DS to offer VIP for gold than to have 3rd party sites offer it.

    (Whoever wants to play Fractured, please grow some skills and then play, rather then relying on P2W. Thank you.)

    I'm sorry but skill doesn't grow. Again you can spend 5k and still lose wars. DS isn't offering P2W, they would be offering VIP to those that otherwise can't afford the additional cash each month.


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    I guess it's not possible to convince someone who wants to P2W, he will look for anything to say, just to try to get it.

    I'll be done with this thread then. ๐Ÿ™‚


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    @gothix said in About the VIP membership:

    I guess it's not possible to convince someone who wants to P2W, he will look for anything to say, just to try to get it.

    I'll be done with this thread then. ๐Ÿ™‚

    and it's not possible to convince someone who chooses to ignore what will actually happen in the game. P2W will happen via 3rd party sites. there's nothing around that. VIP doesn't give advantages, so far, so allowing people to play the game to get it isn't P2W.


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    @jetah said in About the VIP membership:

    P2W will happen via 3rd party sites. there's nothing around that.

    Sure, but I will at least get to laugh at many people afterwards for getting banned, getting screwed for their cash (not getting what they wanted to buy) and possibly getting infected by malware and getting all their cash stolen.

    @jetah said in About the VIP membership:

    VIP doesn't give advantages, so far, so allowing people to play the game to get it isn't P2W.

    VIP doesn't give (significant) advantages, but gold (gotten out of RL money) does. How hard is this to understand? You pay lots of RL cash, you convert it to huge amount of gold and you are king in game. You pay for mercenaries, you equip your whole army with gear, you can buy materials and consumables for sieges,... if you claim that this is OK to have, I was right, no point to discuss this with you any further.

    (now I'm really out) ๐Ÿ™‚ Have fun!

    PS: If players could buy the sub for gold, but directly from DS (so other players can't get access to this gold via selling sub items), that would be OK.

    1. But since this will be B2P game, DS will not be in business of letting people have optional sub just by playing, they will need influx of cash,
    2. and letting other players sell sub items would be P2W, and since they claimed there will be no P2W, they will also not allow this (and if they change it, I'm out, and so are many others).

    So if you want VIP, be ready to cash out for it.

    (Also as you said, VIP doesn't give significant advantages, so you don't really need it to play. So there is no problem if part of players can't afford it, they can still play the game normally. It's luxury and they don't really need it in the first place.)


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    @gothix

    From a perspective of a mostly solo player who doesn't care much about "hardcore" top end guild wars and stuff. I think VIP is much more beneficial than endless amount of currency, just like in Albion Online. Endless amount of in game currency only really matters to the few top guilds in the game fighting for dominance. Also make no mistake, all this sweet talk about VIP not being pay2win is most likely not going to be true. Devs will need an influx of cash just like you said and most people aren't going to pay for just cosmetics.

    I remember Valve saying only 3% of people ever use money in Dota2 because it's 0 pay2win and only cosmetics. And that 3% is not going to be enough for what i suspect will be small playerbase game like Fractured. They are going to (most likely) pump up the benefits of VIP as long as it takes so majority of the playerbase will buy it, like we have seen every game do with similiar business model since beginning of time. That being said from "Solo/Small scale group players" perspective VIP is already more important than endless amounts of in game currency. And it will probably get even more important in the future.

    Also i don't get why most people don't see VIP system pay2win or how it doesn't give "significant" advantages. I see it as massive pay2win and giving very significant advantages in it's current state already. Knowledge point boost and additional study slots are basically same thing as increased fame gain in Albion Online. And in Albion VIP is pretty much mandatory. Devs need to make it mandatory in order to get money and not go bankrupt. Imagine if VIP in Fractured didn't give any pay2win and only cosmetics like Dota2 and only 3% of playerbase would use money like in Dota2. Fractured will probably have playerbase like 10k-100k. And if 3% of those use 10โ‚ฌ/month, That's 3000-30000โ‚ฌ a month for them. That's like 1 guys salary.


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    so I'm a little lost can someone explain to me how being able to sell vip is pay to win?


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    @lovechildbell said in About the VIP membership:

    so I'm a little lost can someone explain to me how being able to sell vip is pay to win?

    The idea is your trading cash to buy VIP which can get you items or gold. The gold is used to buy gear or consumables.

    In this instance a player, or even a bot, has to farm the content first.



  • @dokuwan said in About the VIP membership:

    Also i don't get why most people don't see VIP system pay2win or how it doesn't give "significant" advantages. I see it as massive pay2win and giving very significant advantages in it's current state already.

    You can only use a small number of skills at once, and your stats put a limit on the effectiveness them. VIP is mostly only useful if you want to collect all skills, which isn't necessary at all as most skills probably won't be useful due to your stat distribution.

    remember Valve saying only 3% of people ever use money in Dota2 because it's 0 pay2win and only cosmetics. And that 3% is not going to be enough for what i suspect will be small playerbase game like Fractured.

    Dota 2 is free to play. Fractured is buy to play. The people playing Fractured have already established that they're willing to pay money, which would likely mean that figure will be much higher than 3%, there just won't be as many people overall to spend money.


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    @jetah So its pay to win because the rmt is available in game without having to go to 3rd party sellers? That also doesn't seem very sustainable.


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    @lovechildbell
    i'm saying there will be RMT outside of the game. but if DS can allow the VIP to be sold with in the game to other players then it allows those players to have access to VIP which they may never have otherwise (unless they were selling goods on the 3rd part sites to buy VIP).

    Can VIP to gold in game be P2W, yes. but will many choose for it to be that way, probably not. They'll get a boost in gear but then realize gear isn't so powerful as it is in other games and they'll reconsider when they lose it to PvP.

    Blizzard has done well when they introduced the WoW Token. At first it was only for WoW subscription time but now it can be used to add to your Blizzard balance, thus allowing you to buy games (D3, COD, Destiny2, etc), Overwatch lootboxes, even the BlizzCon Virtual Ticket. DS could copy this system so that the VIP is consumed for a lower value (than the sub) but allows the person to buy anything (i'm sure some exclusions will exist) in the cash shop. Again this would allow a person to buy the box but have access to everything in the cash shop and VIP.


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    If game introduces that, many people will reconsider playing it in the first place (including me). There is no way in hell I'm playing a game with RMT, and so will not many others.

    Not to mention that that would also mean DS breaking their word, which would be horrible for their rep.


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    @gothix Unfortunately thou companies break their promises and contradict themselves all the time. If they do end up doing it then well cya I guess?


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    @gothix
    DS said they wouldnt sell power. The VIP isnโ€™t power if itโ€™s traded.

    DS wouldnt be breaking their word because they arenโ€™t directly selling items.


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