"Capture The Flag" GvG contest in Open World
-
@phaethonas said in "Capture The Flag" GvG contest in Open World:
@gothix said in "Capture The Flag" GvG contest in Open World:
@phaethonas said in "Capture The Flag" GvG contest in Open World:
You are describing instanced gameplay in the open world. Just because you moved it in the open world, doesn't make it any less "instanced gameplay".
I am now quite sure you haven't read my post at all. o.O
If you go and actually read it, you will see guild settlements proposed as flag starting points, and ending points (opposite guilds settlement). You will also see that event starts when guild (their leaders) activate it (similar to activating guild war).
Everything else remains like in CtF, with just a notion that guilds must be aware that it's open world out there, so others might interfere, but it's sandbox, so that's ok.
I read it and I explained why it doesn't fit the open world mechanics/concept. What you propose is not intergrated into the open world.
And how exactly it's not?
Guild settlements - ARE in open world (they can be used as flag points) (for example, flag posts placed in middle of guild settlement)
Players - ARE able to run through open world with flags
Players - ARE able to drop flags in open world (to ground as item) and other players ARE able to click on that flag and re pick it or return it to base (same like in instanced CtF, no difference there)
Score - CAN be calculated, same like score from guild wars can be calculated
CtF event - CAN be started from same UI that guild wars are started fromSo there isn't a single reason why CtF wouldn't be able to run in open world.
The fact that YOU (personally) wouldn't enjoy playing this in open world (where other people might interfere) is another issue. It does not mean that CtF can't be placed in open world, it just means that YOU yourself wouldn't enjoy it being played like that (which is again not a problem for anyone else, not everyone has to like everything).
I, on other hand, would enjoy it very much. CtF being in open world, with extra danger from other random players interfering, would bring me a lots of fun and enjoyment. I love PvP, and open world CtF (with all the extra danger involved) sounds awesome to me.
So instead of saying that CtF in open world can't be played, rather say what you really mean, that YOU (personally) wouldn't enjoy playing CtF in open world (with extra risk involved). I myself, and many others, would enjoy playing it like that very much.
-
@gothix said in "Capture The Flag" GvG contest in Open World:
@phaethonas said in "Capture The Flag" GvG contest in Open World:
@gothix said in "Capture The Flag" GvG contest in Open World:
@phaethonas said in "Capture The Flag" GvG contest in Open World:
You are describing instanced gameplay in the open world. Just because you moved it in the open world, doesn't make it any less "instanced gameplay".
I am now quite sure you haven't read my post at all. o.O
If you go and actually read it, you will see guild settlements proposed as flag starting points, and ending points (opposite guilds settlement). You will also see that event starts when guild (their leaders) activate it (similar to activating guild war).
Everything else remains like in CtF, with just a notion that guilds must be aware that it's open world out there, so others might interfere, but it's sandbox, so that's ok.
I read it and I explained why it doesn't fit the open world mechanics/concept. What you propose is not intergrated into the open world.
And how exactly it's not?
Guild settlements - ARE in open world (they can be used as flag points) (for example, flag posts placed in middle of guild settlement)
Players - ARE able to run through open world with flags
Players - ARE able to drop flags in open world (to ground as item) and other players ARE able to click on that flag and re pick it or return it to base (same like in instanced CtF, no difference there)
Score - CAN be calculated, same like score from guild wars can be calculated
CtF event - CAN be started from same UI that guild wars are started fromSo there isn't a single reason why CtF wouldn't be able to run in open world.
The fact that YOU (personally) wouldn't enjoy playing this in open world (where other people might interfere) is another issue. It does not mean that CtF can't be placed in open world, it just means that YOU yourself wouldn't enjoy it being played like that (which is again not a problem for anyone else, not everyone has to like everything).
I, on other hand, would enjoy it very much. CtF being in open world, with extra danger from other random players interfering, would bring me a lots of fun and enjoyment. I love PvP, and open world CtF (with all the extra danger involved) sounds awesome to me.
So instead of saying that CtF in open world can't be played, rather say what you really mean, that YOU (personally) wouldn't enjoy playing CtF in open world (with extra risk involved). I myself, and many others, would enjoy playing it like that very much.
I never said that CtF in open world can't be played. As a matter of fact I have said the opposite. I have said that there was another proposition with which you will get the CtF gameplay in open world properly.
Still, I expressed my considerations about it (specifically the possibility of exploitations), but these can be countered.
What you are proposing though, is not integrated into the open world concept. You just took the CtF concept as it is in an instance and moved it in the open world. Regardless how many times you describe the same thing, over and over again, it doesn't matter. You just took the CtF concept/gameplay and put it in the open world. That won't work.
The other member took some time to apply the concept into the open world and his idea is great, despite me fearing that it is possible to exploit a number of things. Your idea on the other hand, will just not work.
So, either support ideas like the one made by @Zwiterion, create one like it, or go play a game with instanced CtF and be done with it.
Your idea, won't work and is in direct contrast with what the devs want to do.
-
@phaethonas said in "Capture The Flag" GvG contest in Open World:
Your idea, won't work and is in direct contrast with what the devs want to do.
This idea would work quite nicely, and it's not in contrast with devs open world philosophy at all.
I clearly described (in details) how it would work, and there is not a single reason why it wouldn't (even you agreed that It could be played like that in your reply).
--
So you are basically just saying that, in your mind, it would not look well played in open world, apparently stating your personal dislike of seeing people running around open world with flags.
But contrary to your personal dislike of seeing people playing CtF in open world, many other players WOULD enjoy that quite much.
--
(You still haven't described a SINGLE particular reason as to why it wouldn't fit into open world. You just wrote "it doesn't fit..." but not a single concrete reason about why. So if you plan to write more replies, please DO write a specific reason for why you think it wouldn't fit.)
(let me help you) Examples: you wouldn't like to see people with flags running through open world because it would be aesthetically unpleasing for you, OR you think that ALL open world games should include randoms and that not a single open world game should in your opinion be only between guilds. (Stuff like that.)
Do not just say "it doesn't fit, it won't work, it's not how devs see it..." those are not arguments at all.
-
@gothix said in "Capture The Flag" GvG contest in Open World:
@phaethonas said in "Capture The Flag" GvG contest in Open World:
Your idea, won't work and is in direct contrast with what the devs want to do.
This idea would work quite nicely, and it's not in contrast with devs open world philosophy at all.
I clearly described (in details) how it would work, and there is not a single reason why it wouldn't (even you agreed that It could be played like that in your reply).
--
So you are basically just saying that, in your mind, it would not look well played in open world, apparently stating your personal dislike of seeing people running around open world with flags.
But contrary to your personal dislike of seeing people playing CtF in open world, many other players WOULD enjoy that quite much.
--
(You still haven't described a SINGLE particular reason as to why it wouldn't fit into open world. You just wrote "it doesn't fit..." but not a single concrete reason about why. So if you plan to write more replies, please DO write a specific reason for why you think it wouldn't fit.)
(let me help you) Examples: you wouldn't like to see people with flags running through open world because it would be aesthetically unpleasing for you, OR you think that ALL open world games should include randoms and that not a single open world game should in your opinion be only between guilds. (Stuff like that.)
Do not just say "it doesn't fit, it won't work, it's not how devs see it..." those are not arguments at all.
I told you why it wouldn't fit. What you describe is not integrated into the open world concept. Running around with flags is not open world gameplay, just because it is in the open world. Basically you treat open world like a huge instance.
You want me to mansplain it to you? I wanted to avoid doing that, but it seems you are asking for it, so eagerly.
Instanced gameplay has no repercussions, outside of the instance. The greater repercussion there can be is some sort of leaderboard. That aside, winning or losing means absolutely nothing. Open world gameplay on the other hand, is dynamic, more diverse and its separate parts are affecting each other.
Your idea is not in line with the open world, sandbox concepts exactly because there will be no incentive to play what you describe, as well as there will be no repercussions regardless if you win or lose. As a matter of fact at instanced CtF you would have a leaderboard, now you won't even have that, or even if you have some kind of leaderboard it won't use an ELO system (like seen in many instanced pvp games) but it will use other metrics, like territory owned, materials owning etc. None of these metrics (that are seen in open world pvp MMOs) have anything to do with how many times you captured a stupid flag.
On the other hand, what @Zwiterion described has the open world paradigm in mind, exactly because what he described (a movable orb), would give some sort of buff. For example it would give to all guild members +10 at a stat, which would make the said guild more powerful at their conquests. It could give a x2 speed at crafting or gathering and so on.
This would create an incentive for other guilds to attack the place/temple/keep/guild hall at which the orb is housed, and try to steal it and move it to their place/temple/keep/guild hall. Also, this would have repercussions. The former guild would have lost the +10 stat buff (or whatever) and now another guild would have it, which means that the former guild is in danger of losing territory. This could result at two guilds forming an alliance in order to attack one guild, and so many other things seen at open world sandbox MMOs.
What you describe lacks all of the above and anything similar to the above. What you describe is just a stupid, boring, repetitive CtF game, that instead of being played in an instance it will be played at the open world, lacking any connectivity with the open world! The devs would be insane to make something like you describe, since they want to make a game that will revolutionize the sandbox genre.
What is next? Adding a last man standing, PUBG, gameplay? Well, I'd rather have that, than your idea. At the very least, the "last man standing" gameplay is very popular these days.
You don't want to accept that your idea is bad for an open world sandbox MMO, and that it may even not work? Fine. Don't accept reality, that would be your problem, and no-one else's.
-
Weirdly enough I kinda liked how albion did this with chests.... but at the same time I really didn't like the way that they did it.
-
@phaethonas said in "Capture The Flag" GvG contest in Open World:
Your idea is not in line with the open world, sandbox concepts exactly because there will be no incentive to play what you describe, as well as there will be no repercussions regardless if you win or lose. As a matter of fact at instanced CtF you would have a leaderboard, now you won't even have that, or even if you have some kind of leaderboard it won't use an ELO system ...
Do you understand a concept of FUN, between 2 guilds playing a game? I guess not, lol.
There needs to be no leader boards, metrics or ELO system. People would play this for FUN...
(I guess you would ban all RPers then too right? Because there is "no incentive"...)
__
And as I wrote, OPTIONALLY guilds could place A BET and play for some money from guild treasury. That is more than enough. Not everything has to have a leader board...
The concept of this game is sandbox / fun / interesting activities. And this fits perfectly.
__
And the fact that this is a fun activity between 2 guilds, sandbox rules can fix any deviations.
- Someone exploits by taking flag to unreachable location? Guild kicks that player, and restarts the event.
- The whole guild supports their members "cheating"? No one plays with that guild ever again. (Remember, this event is started between 2 guilds by UI, it is not some random instanced game where you have no choice who you play against.)
__
Again, FUN as a concept. Not leader boards.
-
@wherethebrick said in "Capture The Flag" GvG contest in Open World:
Weirdly enough I kinda liked how albion did this with chests.... but at the same time I really didn't like the way that they did it.
I feel exactly the same xdd
-
@gothix said in "Capture The Flag" GvG contest in Open World:
@phaethonas said in "Capture The Flag" GvG contest in Open World:
Your idea is not in line with the open world, sandbox concepts exactly because there will be no incentive to play what you describe, as well as there will be no repercussions regardless if you win or lose. As a matter of fact at instanced CtF you would have a leaderboard, now you won't even have that, or even if you have some kind of leaderboard it won't use an ELO system ...
Do you understand a concept of FUN, between 2 guilds playing a game? I guess not, lol.
There needs to be no leader boards, metrics or ELO system. People would play this for FUN...
(I guess you would ban all RPers then too right? Because there is "no incentive"...)
__
And as I wrote, OPTIONALLY guilds could place A BET and play for some money from guild treasury. That is more than enough. Not everything has to have a leader board...
The concept of this game is sandbox / fun / interesting activities. And this fits perfectly.
__
And the fact that this is a fun activity between 2 guilds, sandbox rules can fix any deviations.
- Someone exploits by taking flag to unreachable location? Guild kicks that player, and restarts the event.
- The whole guild supports their members "cheating"? No one plays with that guild ever again. (Remember, this event is started between 2 guilds by UI, it is not some random instanced game where you have no choice who you play against.)
__
Again, FUN as a concept. Not leader boards.
What you fail to understand is that in order to have fun while playing an open world, sandbox MMO, you need to have some sort of connectivity between the various elements. Otherwise you end up having [X], [Y] and [Z], that are not connected with each other, but you have them regardless because they are "fun", in which case, you end up having a themepark.
Your idea is horrible, as far as an open world, sandbox game is concerned, and I have nothing more to say to a person who just wants random things added to a game, just because "they are fun"
-
@phaethonas said in "Capture The Flag" GvG contest in Open World:
I have nothing more to say to a person who just wants random things added to a game, just because "they are fun"
Just lol.
Yeah, nothing more too add here I think.
-
@benseine said in "Capture The Flag" GvG contest in Open World:
@Gothix I like to add two variations to it:
-
In stead of capture the flag between two guilds I like to add medieval football (soccer) to it. Football was banned by many kings because it was too violent. The goals where miles apart and a huge number of ppl took part in it. So it fits perfectly in the GvG contest between two guilds. The game has player collision so it seems simple to add a ball to the game and push it around
-
King of the hill. Might be a bit harder to implement in a procedurely generated map. You just fight over who has most control over a hilltop in one hour. The combat in King of the Hill will be very different then to capture the flag, so a nice change of combat, gear and builds setup. Maybe one guild can pick the hill they prefer in the open world and place a special King of the Hill banner on it to create the game.
I dont like the first idea but king of the hill could be good
-
-
CTF would work in open world, just as things work now.
you find a near secluded place. plant 2 flags and have at it.
it could be possible that DS adds some coding for a point system. IE 5 pts for flag capture. 1 point for a player knockout. first team to 15 or 20 points wins.
