Legends need to change

Rife

Didn't they all start playing at the beginning of the beta, like the thousand(s) PvE player that did?

Yeah, thousands of PvP players did too.

They didn't stay.

Nobody did. Was it a surprise? They removed the viability of being reds once players have t2 armors, raids and sieges were bugged, nobody likes the current recipe and equipment progression and not to mention the other tons of bugs they had.

@Logain said in Legends need to change:

So if PvP players can find PvE players to engage with, but they can not find PvP players to engage with, and both inhabit the same space, wouldn't that imply a difference in numbers for both populations?

I found more PvP players than I did PvE players, but any smart player, be it PvP or PvE, would be flagged blue when they're doing serious PvE, because there is simply no incentive to be neutral/red when doing PvE.

@Logain said in Legends need to change:

Like raids on cities? That are enabled now and would be a set time and a set place?
They should classify as everything you've advertised would draw PvPers back in.
How many people have participated on how many raids this week?

I was startled too, I honestly expected way more people back. When I started talking to players though I understood why they didn't. They just lost trust in the game. When the patch said they enabled raids - they had no mention on the bugs they fixed regarding the raids, almost all players I talked to said they weren't coming back because they expected a ton of bugs on the raids still, considering that lots of them also lost their stuff from houses that decayed, they were simply not willing to put in more time to build up characters to play on raids they feel would be bugged as hell.

Logain

@Rife said in Legends need to change:

(...)any smart player, be it PvP or PvE, would be flagged blue when they're doing serious PvE, because there is simply no incentive to be neutral/red when doing PvE(...)

Wouldn't the incentive be the content of PvP?
You have little to loose as neutral player (backpack items), but supposedly plenty to gain (content wise). If you need items/in-game gain as incentive for PvP, isn't that a sign that PvP content is lacking? There's no/little permanent item gain in MOBAs like LoL and DotA2, the joy's the match, not what you keep after the match.

The problem (in my humble opinion) is, similar to what PvE players face when forced into non-consensual PvP, they have far higher odds on a negative outcome. For the PvP player grinding in PvE it's 'simply' the disadvantage of not being specifically equipped for PvP and not initializing battle (attacker's advantage). For the average PvE player the odds are stacked even further against them due to a lack in PvP training/skill.

@Logain said in Legends need to change:
(...)When I started talking to players though I understood why they didn't. They just lost trust in the game(...)

So, how many of them stated that they would return if Legends would be announced in advance?
Your prediction with raids has been off, couldn't your prediction with Legends be off as well?
The disadvantage is, there's a risk to your suggestions. If these don't manage to get a large quantity of new/old PvP players, but scare off the few remaining PvE players, there's serious financial consequences for the studio/game.

Rife

@Logain said in Legends need to change:

Wouldn't the incentive be the content of PvP?
You have little to loose as neutral player (backpack items), but supposedly plenty to gain (content wise). If you need items/in-game gain as incentive for PvP, isn't that a sign that PvP content is lacking? There's no/little permanent item gain in MOBAs like LoL and DotA2, the joy's the match, not what you keep after the match.

If I wanted to have PvP have no consequence of gains/losses, I'd be playing MOBAs instead of MMORPGs where PvP can be more meaningful. You probably don't understand the competitive mindset - when we're doing PvE, we're after a certain set of objectives, either to get materials or to get kp. We'd always choose the most "optimal" route to get that, and since there is nothing to gain, but everything to lose when you're farming as neutral, the most optimal choice would be to farm as blue.

Of course, when we're doing leisure farming and are itching for pvp, we'd be farming as Neutrals, but the point is, competitive PvP players would always choose optimal routes of doing things - if the optimal way to farm is to farm as blue, then that is what we/they'll be doing.

@Logain said in Legends need to change:

So, how many of them stated that they would return if Legends would be announced in advance?
Your prediction with raids has been off, couldn't your prediction with Legends be off as well?

Just making the changes I mentioned for legends is definitely not going to suddenly bring in an influx of players - but it's definitely going to lead to the legends being more utilized and will bring more engagements and player activity back.

@Logain said in Legends need to change:

The disadvantage is, there's a risk to your suggestions. If these don't manage to get a large quantity of new/old PvP players, but scare off the few remaining PvE players, there's serious financial consequences for the studio/game.

Remaining few PvE players? You mean the <10 PvE players that don't even do legends? Not sure why they would be scared off. Nobody is even doing legends right now.

Now is in fact the perfect time to make drastic changes considering that there is basically nothing to lose, but everything to gain, considering the lack of a playerbase.

GamerSeuss

@Rife It is the cost in summoning Legends currently, compared to the drop rate of those items that has PvEers not summoning Legends.

If they would reduce the cost, and keep the announcement the same, the remaining playtesters would go hunting Legends, and further, a large portion of the PvE fans who left would in fact return. PvEs don't need PvEvP content in order to be excited, they just need content they can do, without always getting ganked while doing it.

Yes, Raids came back, and yes, they will still be buggy, this is a Beta Test, the whole point is for us to find and report the bugs in the game. Just because they took a mechanic down for awhile to work on it doesn't mean it will miraculously be bug-free when it returns. More like old bugs/exploits out, new bugs/exploits to discover.

Beta Testing is a process, and people need to stop treating the test like its just an Early Access Release...there is a difference.

When Arborea comes out, we should see a LARGE return of PvE players, same with the release of the new crop type, the release of Alchemy, shoot, even the release of Tartarus and Asteroids, all should bring people back. Does it mean the testing population is going to get crowded suddenly, no, by no means, but it will start to be more viable for testing purposes.

Logain

@Rife said in Legends need to change:

(...)You probably don't understand the competitive mindset(...)

It's amusing you say this, well, you haven't been here for long and probably didn't read my previous posts on related subjects.

@Rife said in Legends need to change:

(...)We'd always choose the most "optimal" route to get that (...) competitive PvP players would always choose optimal routes of doing things(...)

Most certainly.
Which validates my point, PvP for the sake of PvP is not the content.

@Rife said in Legends need to change:

(...)You mean the <10 PvE players that don't even do legends? Not sure why they would be scared off. Nobody is even doing legends right now(...)

I'd argue there's more than 10 PvE players and they do try hunting legendary creatures at times.
I'm not sure it is 'nothing to lose', if it's your company and career that's on the line.

Kurbbie

@Clinion you should never be safe in a fill pvp game, thats the point. You start up something with materials youre risking to be attacked. There should be an announcement of the boss being summoned, which one, but not the location. That way the people who summon have some time and are ready for the pvp that may or may not come.

Kurbbie

@Logain said in Legends need to change:

@Rife said in Legends need to change:

It's amusing you say this, well, you haven't been here for long and probably didn't read my previous posts on related subjects.

Most certainly.
Which validates my point, PvP for the sake of PvP is not the content. yes it is. Youre not the boss. You cant dictate what is fun and what isnt to people.