FINISH HIM abilities



    1. Will there be any limitation on finisher abilities like Power word: Kill or Assassinate ?
      So far if you would go heavy nuker build, you can insta erase enemy once he gets below like 50% of hp (with 20 PER you would deal 550 pure damage and if enemy is below 30% hp and you score lucky roll, he is dead - well this would work on dude with 2750 original endurance, if im not mistaken - it´s imo pretty high health pool, mages will go down even further).

    Situation: Im full glass cannon Deer kin - natural 20 on INT, PER, CHA: i have slotted 1 invis ability to sneak apon enemy, 5 heavy nukes (Fireball with 20 INT and luckiest roll does over 1000 dmg not including crit...if it can crit...multiply it by 5. Luckily we´re limited by INT, so other spells will not be so powerfull, but with some luck / or if spells can crit / I might get enemy to 50% hp---->Assassinate--->PW:Kill . 100-0 In like 3 seconds, luck will probaby still have some role. Depending on spell ability to crit one woul either take luck enchants and equip or crit ofc.
    Not talking about scenario i meet dude grinding mobs at 50% hp 😄 One will probably really need some teammates.

    Can you store as many finishing abilities as you wish in your hotbar (being limited only by your intelligence), or can you have only one such ability (but in that case it should have label "Finisher ability, can slot only one").

    1. Will different magic / fighting schools have access to such abilities (so far we have CHA and PER finishing abilities, will melee STR non mana user hase access to skill like Cull the weak from DOTA ? How about other attributes (CON will sure have nothing)).

    2. Can such abilities CRIT (and can "spell" abilities crit, or can you crit only with weapon using abilities) ? Hope they can´t - in case of PW:Kill its obvious, with some luck its insta death, but how about skills with numbers involved like Assassination - would crits increase potency of such abilities?


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    It's also important to ask how long will CD be on invisibility, and can you use it if already in combat.

    If you are glass cannon in "finish him" build, and you can not stealth, you are pretty much done.


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    I don't see anything wrong with a glass canon build. You might blow someone up, or they might end up healing midway or just resisting Powerd Word: Kill.

    Some problems with your current strategy though. You can go stealth with a melee weapon. But when you switch to a staff you will become visible. So you would have to sneak close and then try to hide behind a rock/tree/something and hope your target doesn't see you casting. And then if you want to use assassinate next you will have to get up close and personal to do it.

    Your idea is still 100% possible, but it will take juggling weapons, abilities, and a lot of skill. I don't see anything wrong with someone doing all this to kill someone.

    There are plenty of counters to everything being done.



  • @Gothix I meant rather "If i unleash whole combo on enemy, theres no need to hide again", cmon, even one fireball can nearly kill you on low lvl and if you go full nuker, you can have 5 such nukes. And you dt even rely on them to kill, you just have to get your enemy below half hp. I think these skills will be problematic to balance.



  • @Whisper Well, although the game is loosely based on ADaD, there are no casting times for spells, they´re instant. You are only limited by 1) CDs, 2) your mana pool.
    In my post there is no tactic involved, no hiding, just straight up sneak close to enemy in stealth (just to be sure he won´t escape and i hit all my spells), cast my 5 nukes (first one with stun / other hard disable to be sure he eats all i throw at him) and when I see he is <50% hp, assassinate--->PW:Kill.

    I also don´t see anything wrong with it, but just two abilities virtually able to rip you on 50% of your hp is quite a lot in full loot game 🙂 Above I was talking about possible death in matter of seconds (if enemy doesn´t suspect anything). Combo would be even cheaper if there were "initiation" abilities - something like "Deals more damage the more endurance enemy has" (something like the Assassin spec of Shadow in Path of Exile has).

    And if you can get stunned and killed in matter of seconds, is there any passive talent / activable ability that breaks stun so you can react ? I wouldnt mind meeting such guy, but only if I got chance to defend myself - even if stuns cant be stacked, 3 seconds of helpless prey might be enough for glass cannon to kill.


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    @asspirin I think the problem is you are assuming a perfect situation. Plans rarely ever survive reality.

    To stealth you will need a melee weapon. When you switch to staff (To cast Fire Ball) you will become visible. At this point someone can simply run away (to heal after the first blast) or if they are melee they will snare you then run away.

    You cannot assassinate unless you are close to your target. If you appear right next to someone you might get your fireball off, but they are going to stun you. I assume most melee's are going the stun-lock route so with the AoE stun you would get your blast off then be stunned. If they have there melee stun they could stun you again after it ends. Then use power word stun on you. But because you went the glass cannon build you might be open for power word kill at that moment. And if they are using weapons with a natural stun on it then the chance to be stun randomly is ever increased.

    That is also assuming things went perfectly for that person. I believe it might end up more chaotic then that. But either way it won't be a cut and dry, easy victory every time for the glass canon build. Especially since melee's can use bandage and have an ability that fully heals their endurance at the cost of life.

    You are 100% right you could get lucky and utterly destroy someone. But you also might not and get utterly destroyed yourself. From what I understand that is the whole concept of a glass canon and to me-That's okay.

    Edit: The biggest problem with your plan. While fighting in the Death Shaman Area I always have Protection from Poison up. I imagine in PVP with Fireball being as strong it is we are going to see most people that can always with Protection from Fire up. Which turns that 1k damage nuke. To 0.

    Which makes your gamble more of a gamble.


  • TF#12 - PEOPLE'S HERALD

    @asspirin 1 vs 1 sure, but only if there aren't other people around. 🙂 if there are and you can't instantly re stealth, you're gone.

    Also if that target who you are trying to sneak, manages to resist / avoid your intial CC and counters with CC of his own, you're also probably gone. 🙂

    It's not a bullet proof build, it still depends on some factors.

    It can also work as you say yeah. That build is something like rogues work in other MMOs... have patience, wait, wait, wait... when opportunity is good, attack, nuke, try to survive the aftermath until you can re stealth again, and wait again.

    I never found such builds fun to play. I have no patience to just stand around and wait. I like constant activity. 🙂

    Also that build would be useless ain anything more than 1 vs 1.



  • @Whisper

    To stealth you will need a melee weapon. When you switch to staff (To cast Fire Ball) you will become visible.

    Unarmed and one handed weapons are classified as "caster weapons" as well, no need to swap.

    You cannot assassinate unless you are close to your target. If you appear right next to someone you might get your fireball off, but they are going to stun you.

    Thats why ganker would stun first. If going glass canon build, accuracy would have to be maxed (as well as luck in case crit damage doesnt work for nukes).

    I assume most melee's are going the stun-lock route so with the AoE stun you would get your blast off then be stunned.

    Stun lock is not going to get into final game.

    You are 100% right you could get lucky and utterly destroy someone. But you also might not and get utterly destroyed yourself. From what I understand that is the whole concept of a glass canon and to me-That's okay.

    Absolutely agree on that.

    I imagine in PVP with Fireball being as strong it is we are going to see most people that can always with Protection from Fire up. Which turns that 1k damage nuke. To 0.

    My big hope is there will be at least one nuke of each element on level of Fireball (just as there is Fire totem and Poison totem). My bet is at least Lightning and some kind of frost ubernuke.
    To immunities in pvp - such mechanics have nothing to do in pvp (immunity to soke kind of CC at the cost of being more susceptible to other kind of CC would be bearable, but full immunity to damage element? In PvE game it would be cheezy tactics considering we can prepare for every encounter - aka going into fight knowing I´m 100% winning this because Im immune to enemy; for PvP game it´s even worse, literally making encounter just coin toss (he´s immune to my damage - Im dead / Im immune to his - he´s dead). Still hope immunities eoither won´t get into final game, or that they will not work on players (or at least with huge maluses).

    Which makes your gamble more of a gamble.

    Agreed, as said in text above. Trust me, i hated this concept the moment fire immunity aura was reveled 😄



  • @Gothix

    It's not a bullet proof build, it still depends on some factors.

    Yep - 1) is ganker going full in ( maxing only damage and accuracy), 2) enemy is not dedicated tank (who maxes resistances and luck 😄 )

    That build is something like rogues work in other MMOs... have patience, wait, wait, wait... when opportunity is good, attack, nuke, try to survive the aftermath until you can re stealth again, and wait again.
    I never found such builds fun to play. I have no patience to just stand around and wait. I like constant activity. 🙂

    Neither have I, i hate such guys (hated them mostly in GW2 - just waiting to finish you off, before you got to like 40% you literally never met a rogue 😄 )

    I don´t have problem with this, opportunistic ganking is in every similar game, but two such abilities seem quite strong to me ( just like if you had both Necrophos´s and Axe´s ulties on one character - DotA/DotA2 ).

    Also that build would be useless ain anything more than 1 vs 1.

    Absolutelly, but if you get surprised by such specialised dude 1v1 while farming wood/stone, say gbye to equipment 😄 This game would use some STUN breaker ability.


  • TF#1 - WHISPERER

    Unarmed and one handed weapons are classified as "caster weapons" sas well, no need to swap.

    Are you sure about this? I tried to cast Fireball using a Hammer, Axe, and Dagger. Everytime I tried with everyone one of them I got a message that said, "Can't cast with a melee weapon:". And if you don't have a weapon you can't assassinate.

    So you will need to swap.

    Thats why ganker would stun first. If going glass canon build, accuracy would have to be maxed (as well as luck in case crit damage doesnt work for nukes).

    Try to stun first. They can fail. And they will need to get close to do it. If they fail they will be at a huge disadvantage being a glass cannon build. And since your Dex will be your stealth modifier will be low as well. And since your con will be low your chance to resist someone stunning you if you fail will be lower than theirs as well.

    This is a gamble.

    Stun lock is not going to get into final game.

    Can you link to the source of this claim?

    Absolutely agree on that.

    Glad we see eye to eye on one of the issues 🙂

    My big hope is there will be at leas one nuke of each element on level of Fireball (just as there is Fire totem and Poison totem). My bet is at least Lightning and some kind of frost ubernuke.

    I 100% agree with you on that. I hope that humans get fire, and Demons gets one element and the beastmen get an element as well. To give the diversity and give people that extra push to travel to other planets.

    To immunities in pvp - such mechanics have nothing to do in pvp (immunity to soke kind of CC at the cost of being more susceptible to other kind of CC would be bearable, but full immunity to damage element? In PvE game it would be cheezy tactics considering we can prepare for every encounter - aka going into fight knowing I´m 100% winning this because Im immune to enemy; for PvP game it´s even worse, literally making encounter just coin toss (he´s immune to my damage - Im dead / Im immune to his - he´s dead). Still hope immunities eoither won´t get into final game, or that they will not work on players (or at least with huge maluses).

    I would agree with you if this was WoW or any MMO that allows you to have all your abilities up. But we also have to keep in mind we have Memory and each skill takes up its own amount of memory. And on top of that we can only have our 8 abilities up. So even if someone had all the memory in the world they still would have to pick 8 abilities.

    And it's only a coin toss if someone decides, "I am only going to use only Fire damage". Use a little diversity. People cannot have up multiple protections. The moment they cast one they lose the other. All this means is if someone wants to end the match in 3 seconds, it's going to be a huge gamble. Possible but no where near a guaranteed thing.

    Agreed, as said in text above. Trust me, i hated this concept the moment fire immunity aura was reveled 😄

    Yeah, I don't think our core concepts are too far off. I agree with you if you get that stun off, if you deal high damage on Fire Ball, land Assassinate, and Power Word Kill is not resisted it could be a quick fight.

    I only disagree that it is over powered. Even if every step in that move is executed and your opponent doesn't counter at any point it still counts on multiple if statements working in your favor.

    And because of the weapon swapping, and timing I feel like it requires enough talent, and(or) luck that the method should be a viable one.

    I will say I also agree that 100% immunity is a bit much. 2 Memory is too little for 100% immunity in my opinion. In my opinion it should be tiered. 2 memory for a tier 1 fire resistance that gives a chuck of fire resist. Then a tier 2 for 4 memory that does more. Etc. Then finally a last tier that gives 100% but takes up the same memory as powerful moves (6?).

    Or as a hard counter to that hard counter. They could just make dispell an ability that remove buffs.



  • @Whisper

    I tried to cast Fireball using a Hammer, Axe, and Dagger

    Well I dont thing this was changed since first alpha, there daggers were caster weapons (unarmed too, but one used unarmed 🙂 . But if this was changed, my bad. It would be however weird if there were no 1h caster weapons - even shield can be used while casting spells (except Conjuration and Evocation schools), so 1h should be usable (small, not medium).

    Stun lock is not going to get into final game.

    • Can you link to the source of this claim?

    Well soon after first alpha, where enemies were stunlocked for whole fight, it was stated by devs that this is going to get changed, cant link that tho, sorry. Check content released on February.

    I 100% agree with you on that. I hope that humans get fire, and Demons gets one element and the beastmen get an element as well. To give the diversity and give people that extra push to travel to other planets.

    Well everyone will get everything, so you are actually right.

    I will say I also agree that 100% immunity is a bit much. 2 Memory is too little for 100% immunity in my opinion. In my opinion it should be tiered. 2 memory for a tier 1 fire resistance that gives a chuck of fire resist. Then a tier 2 for 4 memory that does more. Etc. Then finally a last tier that gives 100% but takes up the same memory as powerful moves (6?).

    But prices for slotting thesabilities will not affect everyone equally. Magic casting abilities - especially offensive nukes and disables likew Spider web - are WAY more expensive, while melee abilities are like 2 points worth. And melees rely on melee, so they wouldnt mind such abilities being more costly. Or they wouldnt even use them, if they were (as many melees are going to have low INT). Imunity abilities imo need rework.

    Or as a hard counter to that hard counter. They could just make dispell an ability that remove buffs.

    Then enemy would just recast aura (not sure how silence would affect auras, but probably wouldnt, its not channeled ability). Only solution is resistance reduction or penetration. Oh boy, immunities stink 😕


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