Profession Matrix - Suggestion for gathering and crafting


  • TF#8 - GENERAL AMBASSADOR

    PROFESSIONS

    Introduction
    Professions are one of my favorite aspect of MMORPGs and I love to spend time also with activities related to gathering and crafting. Those are really good counterbalance to all combat activities what games can usually offer. That great interest related to professions and desire to be a mastercrafter has driven me to prepare this comprehensive suggestion.

    Below is my matrix how professions could be implemented in Fractured. I divided professions to three main category without actually knowing how this is planned to implement.

    • Gathering
    • Refining / Processing
    • Crafting

    If DS has planned to include refining/processing to gathering and/or crafting that is of course one way to do this.

    Now please consider this as my vision, which bases on my experience how professions have been implemented successfully in other games and how I wish to see things to be done to cater all players interested of different life skills. I don't say this is how professions should be done, this is more like how things could be done. I just hope this post gives devs some ideas what they can consider to use in development.

    I tried to gather information from forums and news, and I mixed those with my own ideas and experience. That lead to matrix like this:

    Fractured Professions.png

    I know there is a good amount of different profession, but some of them can easily be combined if wanted. I did not list all the things different professions can make, I just gave some meaningful examples.

    Gathering
    Gathering is usually and generally speaking very grindy activity, which can also lead people for boredom quite fast. I personally like to gather now and then, and especially in mind to collect more crafting materials. I am sure that most people are fine with decent amount of grind, because it goes well with spirit of gathering. Still I hope we will see progression implemented way like abilities are generally planned (using task system). And I guess this is developers intend as well.

    Creating gathering more interesting is not only about making it less grindy. Adding more content to gathering itself is one good way to do this. Craftable gathering gear, tools and items are standard options, but on top of that gatherers deserves something more. Hiding rare drops and other rewards to resource nodes is something which keeps people going. Also unlocking special abilities to help with gathering would give people wider progression.

    Crafting
    Crafting will be really important part of Fractured, because we have player driven economy. That is why I hope we can see more focus on individual item crafting and less in mass production. So, I want to see more complex, but at the same time more rewarding system. At the sametime DS wants basic gear set crafting to be quite simple, so i am interested how they will balance this? Because, if crafting will be really easy (only few materials needed) and mass productive, this will lead items to overflood the markets. After that it is hard to make profit with anything. Also if crafting system allows mass production, this will lead guilds to centralize all resources to specific/shared alts. I hope this will be avoided with some mechanics like task system or recipes, so we will actually see crafting as meaningful career choice. This is where Albion Online went really wrong and I do not want to see Fractured making same mistake.

    Summary
    This suggestion was about different profession possibilities and what the structure could look like. I did not wanted to go too deep in gathering, crafting or specific professions. I guess I could get back to those topics a little bit later.

    So it's time to end this post and hear others’ opinions. Did I miss something relevant? What kind of professions you would like to see in Fractured and most importantly why?

    ![alt text](image url)


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @Tuoni Good job there, looks interesting, but to actually say whether it is a good thing or not for Fractured is dependent on how the knowledge/crafting systems will be implemented.


  • TF#8 - GENERAL AMBASSADOR

    @Meiki Yeah, its hard to say how all profession will be implemented, but in otherhand its not so hard to make good guesses. So if we examine a little bit this picture:

    ability_menu_spell_selected2-1.jpg

    We can assume that professions have their own pages like all schools of magic and fighting. What we do not know is how much professions we actually have and how all different professions will be categorized.

    In picture we have now page of Invocation and abilities related to that school. If we use weaponsmithing as an example. We can see how it has similar page where is listed on the left different weapons you can unlock and craft. On the right you can see weapon stats and crafting materials needeed.

    So I can imagine how this will be implemented, but of course I can not be sure. I am sooo eager to see how this profession system will be implemented and I hope this will happen quite soon.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @Tuoni Well yeah, the system will definitely look like this for crafting... the questions is how it will turn out, you might have crafting tied to different materials with professions being the "abilities" in the type of material. So you could have "Metal Crafting School" with Mining, Smelting, Blacksmithing, Jewelcrafting, etc." and then "Wood Working School" with Treecutting, Woodprocessing, Fletchery, etc. Or you could have the standard professions i.e. "Blacksmithing School" with ore smelting, bronze, gold, mithril or whatever as seprate "abilities" or with ore smelting, armor, weapon and tool smithing as separate "skills". There are so many options.


  • TF#8 - GENERAL AMBASSADOR

    Actually I really hope you are right. πŸ™‚ It is natural way to think, that we have gathering -> refining -> crafting in that order. That will be the production line no matter what kind of system we have. It is still there. Now your examples makes perfect sense imho. Collecting all same kind of professions under specific school regardless is those gathering, refining or crafting skills sounds perfect solution.

    I would use as a new example Hunter School or Nature School. That school could contain professions or abilities listed below:

    • Hunter
    • Skinner
    • Lumberjack
    • Tamer
    • Tanner
    • Sawyer
    • Fletcher
    • Bowyer
    • Leatherworker
    • Carpenter

    And for adjustment, I dont mean by hunting only killing animals or creatures, but also catching those alive with traps, cages and ropes. So with taming skill you or someone else can at least try to tame catched animals or creatures to pets, mounts or cattle. Or if you choose to kill your prey, those can be skinned and later tanned and used with leatherworking to make armors. Same with weapons. Hunter school should have at least bow, spear, trap crafting and maybe even some knives or druidic stuff.

    ..Anyway, dividing professions under specific schools is the way to go. Excellent idea @Meiki. πŸ‘


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @Tuoni Well a better position to discuss the skill books will be when alfa comes, but back on track to your original post - I was thinking over the skill - attribute relations and I think that there should be primary and secondary.
    So using your table as a base, some examples:
    Farmer - Primary - Constitution, secondary - intelligence (you have to have at least some knowledge about flora to be able to be efficient farmer and as knowledge is tied to intelligence here, then intelligence it is)
    Fisher - Primary - Perception, secondary - Dexterity; Herbalist - Intelligence+Perception; Hunter - Dexterity+Perception; etc.


  • TF#8 - GENERAL AMBASSADOR

    @Meiki said in Profession Matrix - Suggestion for gathering and crafting:

    @Tuoni Well a better position to discuss the skill books will be when alfa comes

    Yeah you are probably right, but its fun to speculate. πŸ˜‰

    In optimal situation there would be 6 different profession schools, so every school is under one specific (and different) attribute. I see here only one problem, what kind of stuff you put under Charisma? All other 5 are easily covered. With this logic every profession school could have own node in talent tree to give some bonuses. Like in this picture:
    alt text

    Or what you @Meiki had in your mind with primary and secondary attributes? I liked that idea to have also secondary attribute involved.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @Tuoni Well charisma could be tied to the "roleplay" professions like - singing, playing <input instrument name here>, etc.


  • TF#8 - GENERAL AMBASSADOR

    @Meiki Hmmmm.. Yeah it could, but I guess that is not enough, because most players won't actually roleplay. I guess I would personally approach charisma from 'how its defined' point of view. So here is copy how Fractured defines charisma and what it actually incluedes:

    "Charisma is a measure of the leadership and mental abilities of a character, determining the amount of pets and companions it can control at once, its ability to charm other creatures and its affinity with mental abilities, which increases psychic damage and psychic resistance. It also grants a moderate bonus to item identification, makes interactions with NPCs easier and more effective, and determines the base luck of the character.
    Reaching a Charisma score of 20 gives the character a significant boost to its luck.
    Some say luck is blind, but knowing yourself and having faith in your abilities often helps a lot! Charisma is used by leaders and kings to raise among people, by minstrels to convey emotions to the souls of their audience, by tricksters to deceive their victims with illusions, and by trainers to earn the respect of their pets.
    When chances between life and death depend on the throw of a dice, Charisma makes the difference, skewing the balance towards the best result."

    I do not have much ideas atm what it comes to charisma and professions related to that attribute, but tamer would be one option, because it actually looks like animal charming and taming can be a thing. Charisma is character's skill to persuade, preach, lead, trick, lie, and convince others, so its kind of easy to implement punch of abilitites from there. Maybe something related to trading or being a merchant if that is possible. And because we will have "bard school", it would be expectable to have some kind of instrument crafting and maybe even inscriber or composer to write music sheets (basically abilitites) for example.

    Well maybe Charisma related school is possible to implement even it might not have same amount of content than other schools.. but maybe it does not actually matter so much. I just kind of want that charisma would matter as much as any other attribute, because easily you value those others much more higher.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    Keep in mind though that not all players like when too much complexity is involved. It's why devs need to find the right balance so crafting is not boring, but also not overly complicated.

    People want to relax when playing a game, and not torture them selves. πŸ˜‰


  • TF#8 - GENERAL AMBASSADOR

    We have just talked about the frames here, at the same level what the already exist magic & fighting schools will be, so I really hope it won't be too complex to anyone.


  • TF#8 - GENERAL AMBASSADOR

    @Gothix said in Profession Matrix - Suggestion for gathering and crafting:

    devs need to find the right balance so crafting is not boring, but also not overly complicated.

    I agree with this. And this balance is actually important in every activity what game can offer.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @Gothix Although you can have a complex, yet fun system. It is usually the time-consumption and complicated mechanics that put people off. But as long as they have fun with it, it can be complex no probs.


  • TF#8 - GENERAL AMBASSADOR

    @Meiki said in Profession Matrix - Suggestion for gathering and crafting:

    @Gothix Although you can have a complex, yet fun system. It is usually the time-consumption and complicated mechanics that put people off. But as long as they have fun with it, it can be complex no probs.

    That is true. And top of that complex system needs to be rewarding and avoid bunishing RNG features.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    items could have a base stat then have a magic profession, usually something like enchanting, that adds magical attributes to it, which can be RNG to an extent.

    I like Path of Exile where any common item could become a well crafted item.


  • TF#8 - GENERAL AMBASSADOR

    @Jetah said in Profession Matrix - Suggestion for gathering and crafting:

    items could have a base stat then have a magic profession, usually something like enchanting, that adds magical attributes to it, which can be RNG to an extent.

    Yeah this would be quite standard solution. I guess there could be some slight RNG involved, but maybe its better if it does not have a big role.

    @Jetah said in Profession Matrix - Suggestion for gathering and crafting:

    I like Path of Exile where any common item could become a well crafted item.

    Was this based purely on RNG? Because I was wondering, that it might be nice add if you could use some extra ingredients to make common items with better quality. πŸ€”


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @Jetah said in Profession Matrix - Suggestion for gathering and crafting:

    I like Path of Exile where any common item could become a well crafted item.

    I really like Path of Exile as well.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @Pwnstar @Jetah Same here and it would be pretty neat if you could work on the lower quality gear and improve them. Like it even makes sense - you can add padding to armor/clothing, you can enchant it. It would be also neat to have the option to not only upgrade/downgrade, but also horizontally change the gear attributes. Like you know if you add padding, the armor will protect you more, but will be also more weighty, depending on your choice of material. Also, you could make a combinated armor - like having a plate cuirass, which is weighty and slows you down, but does not make your limbs less "dextrous" because you could use leather gloves and pads to cover the limbs instead, using plate on only those parts of body, that really do not have the option to actually bend that much or is not needed to bend them that much at all. Which is what I do not like on many of the MMO's you are forced to go either full plate, full leather, full cloth or you lose to much. Although combinated armour were widely used. It was actually quite common to have a leather base with plated parts where the body does not need to be as flexible and stretchable. So I would definitely like to see those in the game. Even if they were only upgrades. Like a leatherworker will craft a normal leather armor and blacksmith will add plate outer-padding in places that do not restrict movement, enchanter could enchant the metals to make them spell resistant/sturdier/lighter to either boost physical or magical defense or to boost the mobility of the wearer. And similar stuff like that. On the other hand leatherworkers could be able to add inner leather padding to plate armor or "stitch-in" padding for clothes.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    I always disliked RNG in any aspect of MMO, except perhaps when boss drops are involved.

    I much prefer when both combat and crafting are based purely on skill and your own effort. Lett the "more skilled" player win, and not the "more lucky" one...

    If I wanted to play a RNG game, I'd just go buy a lottery ticket.


  • TF#10 - CONSUL

    @Gothix I am ok with RNG as long as it is minimal and does not have such a huge impact on the game in favor of unskilled and unexperienced being able to win over others just because of pure luck. RNG will always be present in games, you simply can't create a game without RNG as every decision making related to events done in the game is supported by the RNG. You being hit, succesfully casting, evading, etc. is all just a result of RNG. The thing is, there is an acceptable RNG factor and pretty much broken one completely favoring lucky players over those investing time and effort.
    Let's say: completely basic weapon has an attack value of 8-10, 8 being the minimum dmg it deals on succesful hit (before dmg mitigation is applied) and 12 being the max. Acceptable RNG is, that you might get lucky and your weapon becomes 9-10 or 8-11. You can either pray to luck and create still a very basic weapon with a little bit of better stats, or you could use advanced crafting and for example use a better material to craft the very same weapon, which has the base of 10-12 and if you are lucky enough you can still get 10-13 or 11-12. So luck is still neat addition to you, but being an unlucky person does not ruin or change the game experience to much. What usually makes games with RNG so frustrating is, because a single weapon does not have a range of let's say 2-3 points of a stat, but tens, sometimes even hundreds, which is then making the RNG unbearable.


 

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