Patch Log - b.0.1e (Crafting Taxes, Harbor Protection & Bug Fixes)
-
These changes were made in the first place because there is too much gold going around, and because currently gold has mostly no purpose.
Now, this change alone won't do anything. It is too little alone, but I'm sure that more are coming (most likely taxes on banks and Market places, considering the Governor options). With those, gold will be a resource again instead of being an afterthought. This will make trade pick up, because people will WANT gold. Currently you don't trade, because resources are more important than gold, and most of the trading is based on resource exchanges.
This is an incredibly good change for crafters, and I hope that the devs keep implementing these sinks.
-
@spoletta Exactly!
Also, this is newly implemented, so the effect is not being realized yet. As it trickles down through everyone's consciousness, market listings will start to automatically include trying to recoup your tax burden, for finished goods, and raw material prices will go down, as they don't have to be processed, just gathered.
There will be a whole cottage industry of gatherers, not crafting, not really fighting, just going out, gathering, grinding easy mobs, and supplying the market with different reagents from around the continents.
-
Liking all these improvements personally.
Keep up the great work.
-
I can no longer manufacture from my house
it is already starting to destroy the crafting system for players
-
Why you can't? What's the issue?
-
the problem is the taxes that are paid all the time even in your house.
knowing that you are already paying rent which is out of reach for small solo players, it will just drive up the prices at the auction house which for the most part are already hilarious
with this system if you sold an object at 5po is that the material cost you 3po you no longer earn anything at the same price because the taxes will force you to put it at 10po to be profitable
-
A light, casual player can grind out the 2000 needed for rent in less than 2 hours, depending on where they hunt...if they get a good spot, you can actually net closer 4000 an hour (that's what I make at the Storm Elementals on Aehren, not counting Recipes)
So, if every week, you devote a mere 2 hrs of play to making money, you've got your rent covered, and again, that's casual. Another couple hours for crafting gold, and you've still only played 4 hours in a week's time. Most casual players tend to do 1 to 2 sessions ranging from anywhere around an hour to more than 8 per session, with possible longer sessions, but fewer sessions per week being the thing. A more regular player gets in sessions every day to every other day, and those range from about 2 hours to again, upwards of 8 hrs or so, and the dedicated gamer plays every day, or like 3 to 4 solid days of 6+ hrs at a time, generally at least 20+ hrs a week.
So, unless your a super casual player (under 2 to 3 hrs a week) in which case, your probably not going to be owning a house, or being a heavy crafter anyway, you shouldn't have any problems. The more casual your time frames, the less you can expect to turn a profit, which is just reality. In the real world, you gotta spend money to make money, in the gaming world, you gotta spend game time to make money/crafting.
Let's face it, if your playing less than 10 hrs total in a given week, ,one could hardly call you a heavy crafter...and in general, you probably aren't in heavy need of your own home to craft in. With those kinds of limitations, your not even going to really be handling the time sinks for things like metal ingots and leather for the most part, afterall.
-
Honestly that's a very low estimate.
2000 gold in one hour is a very low bar and anyone that has played long enough to have an house and to be worried about rent (1 more week) can surely meet if not double that.
4 hours (more likely 2) of playing per month doesn't seem like such a huge effort.
-
it depends on your class and if you prefer to be an artisan or a pure warrior
in my case mainly craftsman + healer
-
It's easier and less time-consuming to grind mobs for gold than it is to craft quality materials for crafting.
For example, a player can grind mobs for 4 hours while it takes 4 hours just to produce 1 copper ingot.
So in four hours of mob grinding how much gold will a player make on average?
In order to produce 1 copper ingot I will require:
1 Smelter (24 Stone)
4 Coal
5 Copper Ores
4 Hours
= 1 Copper Ingot.So making 1 Copper Ingot requires about ~5+. Hours.
Then you take into consideration the number of Smelters one can make on their land and then multiple the resources needed above to keep it running. It's... it's just too much for the average joe I think.
And grinding mobs all day with no way to sink the gold towards something just devalues it even more.
-
No, that's not how it works. You don't have to stare at the smelter to make it work.
Making 6 copper ingot requires around 45 mins if you have the resources in your area. So it takes less than 10 mins for one copper ingot.
-
Well gathering the materials takes like 45 minutes, you're right.
Unless there's something I am not understanding about smelting, It takes 4 hours to produce 1 copper ingot from a smelter. So if you have 4 smelters, you can make 4 ingots every 4 hours at the cost of 16 coal and 20 copper ores.
-
Yeah, but you put them in the smelters and then log out or do something else. You don't need to "grind" to make copper ingots.
-
@Eldriken Actually, Copper only requires 2 coal per ingot made, not 4, so you can actually do what your saying with only 8 coal and 20 copper ore (so less than 1 wagon load, all total)
If your using Charcoal, I think it takes 4, but coal burns hotter.
The point is, while said smelters (which take about 45 mins to fill if resources are near and not played out,) will now take 4 hours to process...during that time, you could go offline, or go grind out some gold and gather other resources at the same time. Like @spoletta said, my 2000 in an hour estimate is on the low side, once you find good gold mobs to farm, but shoot, just hitting the coast for Sea Trolls, you can make the 2K relatively safely, soloing. That's melee or ranged, not sure on cutthroat or archer builds, and that's just using the starter skills plus the 1 you pick up in the tutorial.
As I said, in the Shock Elemental area of Aehren, I make around 4k an hour, and generally can net a recipe every hour or 2 to add to that, plus various levels of topaz, magnetic gravel, and the very common Storm Essence and Primordial Dust that almost every one of the elementals drop. Again, that's solo'ing with my mage, my sister solo's the next island over (with her melee) and nets about the same, with mayhaps a slightly lower recipe drop rate (they don't seem to like to drop for her as much)
So, what you can do is fill your smelter (45 mins-ish) and either log off, or now transport to Aehren with minimal gear near the Shock Elementals via the Harbor (about 4-600 gold) Grind gold for 4 hours, netting about 15-16,000 gold, transport back to Myr, fully loaded for about 3,000 gold (more or less, depending on carry capacity) and you've netted say 12k in gold for that one trip, played for less than 5 hours total, got your 4 ingots made, got your rent, and got about 10k to spend on crafting stuff as well, plus you've got some reagents, a few of which might even sell off at the market decently, and you can probably sell/learn the recipes you've picked up as well for a little extra capital. Even if that's all you play in the whole week, you've covered yourself, and the next couple weeks you can just craft if you want in the same time, until your run out of funds/materials, then repeat the process...you keep your house, you fill your smelter, and your only using about 5 hrs a week to maintain.
-
Thank you for the correction, GamerSeuss It does take 2 coal to make 1 Copper Ingot.
The misunderstanding of the cost of coal comes from me putting four coal into the smelter first without understanding the required temperature.
As a word of caution to other players to not make the mistake I made: Put in the ore required first and it will tell you the required temperature to smelt it. I was putting in four coals first, then the ore last. If you burn four coal when it requires 2 coals to make 1 ingot, you lose all four coals! It is a user error.
-
These arguments are pure ignorance. Not everyone runs around with that kind of gold. Using it as an excuse to screw the casual gamer is ridiculous.
I finally get a recipe for a halberd. To make 1 it will cost 600 gold. That's more then I make in a few days. I don't grind gold and I don't think it's acceptable to make me grind gold just to make an item on equipment I built myself.
Yours is a completely ludicrous change and your excuses are as well.You want to stop guilds from farming large amounts of gold, then change the mechanism they use to do it. Not completely screw the casual gamer.
Let's look at what the change does.
The people farming gold just keep farming gold. They might have to farm a little more but the crafters they support won't notice a difference.
Mean while the smaller crafters who have been starved of recipes because of the idiotic drop rate are now even more disadvantaged as they don't have someone grinding gold for them.Your change just screws more of your player base then not.
-
I think you don't understand what this (and other hopefully coming) change does.
If there is no gold sink in the game, then gold has no value. Recipes get sold for 150k because I don't have anything else to do with my coins, so I may as well throw them all at something.
Do you want to buy an armor? Oh sorry you can't! No one wants your money, because it has no value!
The more the game goes on, the less the value of gold. We are already in the situation where people don't want to sell stuff for money, and instead accept only trades for other items/resources.You talk about screwing parts of the player base, but if the devs don't put enough gold sink systems in the game, we will go down Barter Lane and this will screw 100% of the player base.
-
@spoletta Exactly
For a Player Driven Economy, which is by far one of the MAIN design goals of FO, you have to make the Currency Standard have a valuation. This means proper, and diverse gold sinks. If your crafters, dedicated or casual, want to be able to sell their items in the market at a sufficient 'actual' profit to do something with in the game, the currency needs to stabilize. Putting in gold sinks like the standard base costs to craft items, as well as allowing the town to add in taxes for using town based work stations is one way they do this. Another is house rental costs for upkeep. A third is Harbor Fees. Possible additional costs will include Research costs in the future, Siege costs, etc...
You need sufficient gold sinks to balance out gold, no matter what you set the gold drop rate at...because without gold sinks, even a dirt low drop rate will eventually mean an overabundance of gold, and a general devaluation of it as a currency.
Sure, there is the Bartar system, but that doesn't work as a full economy, only as a community support subsystem, that is much easier to cheat newbies with than the market.
-
@spoletta said in Patch Log - b.0.1e (Crafting Taxes, Harbor Protection & Bug Fixes):
I think you don't understand what this (and other hopefully coming) change does.
If there is no gold sink in the game, then gold has no value. Recipes get sold for 150k because I don't have anything else to do with my coins, so I may as well throw them all at something.
Do you want to buy an armor? Oh sorry you can't! No one wants your money, because it has no value!
The more the game goes on, the less the value of gold. We are already in the situation where people don't want to sell stuff for money, and instead accept only trades for other items/resources.You talk about screwing parts of the player base, but if the devs don't put enough gold sink systems in the game, we will go down Barter Lane and this will screw 100% of the player base.
Gold has no value as is. Except to waste the time of casual gamers. You always seem to ignore the point.
The large guilds farm at will. So this idiotic change does little to keep them from flooding gold. The change only screws the little guy.
I spent all my gaming time gathering and processing resources. Then spent 4 hours farming gold so I could do 20 minutes of crafting. This is completely stupid change, crafting was a huge time sink to start with.
So congratulations. Your change has done nothing but screw the little guy. It's like these people have no clue.
-
@dracokalen Gold is 'starting' to gain value, but they still don't have enough gold sinks in the game yet, and they haven't got everything else balanced out right, right now...but they are improving.
You keep missing the point yourself, @dracokalen especially casual crafters aren't going to want to craft in a vacuum. Especially if they aren't crafting for personal use, at some point they are in fact going to want to be able to sell their crafted goods, and if gold remains without a valuation scale, it IS in fact the casual crafting player that will get screwed. The establishment of gold sinks, especially those tied directly into crafting, will help develop a valuation scale of both the gold itself, and the crafts that come from that gold. Next, the market stabilizes, as crafting costs, both base and taxes, get rolled into the cost of equiipment crafted and then sold on the market, across the board. The point is, it is really early in the game's lifecycle (in fact, it is pre-lifecycle, as we're only Beta-testing, as we find that balance). Once the game gets the balances worked out, the gold sinks established, all the craftings implemented, and they work out exactly how Mastery and Recipes/Higher Level/tier crafting should work, as well as things like Caravans, PvP, etc... then everyone will have a more robust experience in the game. Crafters will get to craft, AND be able to sell their goods at a reasonable price in the marketplace, or sell their services to a group or guild as crafting quartermasters, and the system will be able to work harmoniously. Right now, you're just not feeling the affects yet.
