Are you a PVP or PVE player?
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I'm genuinely curious why people don't PvP.
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@jetah Usually not fun, usually not rewarding, usually not fair. PVP-focused games are for scrubs, the kind who play Elder Scrolls and just murder every NPC they see and never take a quest
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@fibs said in Are you a PVP or PVE player?:
@jetah Usually not fun, usually not rewarding, usually not fair. PVP-focused games are for scrubs, the kind who play Elder Scrolls and just murder every NPC they see and never take a quest
I guess that's what I'm not understanding. I know fun is subjective, rewards can be underwhelming (destiny 2). But that unfair part is hanging me up. Are you talking about world pvp because I can't see arena pvp being unfair.
To me a human is the best "AI" we'll have for a long time. I usually suggest to people who don't PvP to think of the enemy as 'well scripted AI'. Playing some PvE aspects is like hitting on target dummies. Not much happens and they're predictable. PvP is unpredictable because humans. Well that last one is iffy because humans learn habits and stick to them.
Ironically, I like PvP focused games and haven't played Elder Scrolls (ESO was the first ES game I played and it lasted a month or less).
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PVP in moments, but i like PVE
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pvp and pve
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@jetah It depends what people are looking for. Some people don't find other players challenging or rewarding to fight, just irritating. Some people feel anxious in those sorts of situations and just don't get anything out of it.
It also depends on the game. Sometimes people are just not equipped for it, and so they're at a disadvantage. Some people don't have a connection that would make them competitive in a serious fight, or they don't have the reaction time. Sometimes PvP just comes down to who has the better gear or is more ontop of the metagame, while other people have no interest in that, so they don't win fights or care enough to want to. For some it just triggers a flight response. Other times it's just that often attacks are opportunistic, rarely a fair fight and so for a lot of people it's just more trouble than it's worth, disrupting their enjoyment, rather than enhancing it.
Personally, I just have to be in the mood for it to enjoy it. I'm rarely in that mood. If attacked, I'll defend myself but otherwise I'm not looking for a fight.
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Pve is the best for me, but group Pvp is good too
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@Jetah I usually avoid PvP when I lose things! Nothing fun ;). That's why I enjoyed
PvP on WoW because there where nothing to lose
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100% PVE, unless someone comes after me. I play as lone wolf most of the time.
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PvE but only with Co-Op and high-risk, tough challenges.
Otherwise PvP with trusted friends.
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@jameow said in Are you a PVP or PVE player?:
@jetah It depends what people are looking for. Some people don't find other players challenging or rewarding to fight, just irritating. Some people feel anxious in those sorts of situations and just don't get anything out of it.
It also depends on the game. Sometimes people are just not equipped for it, and so they're at a disadvantage. Some people don't have a connection that would make them competitive in a serious fight, or they don't have the reaction time. Sometimes PvP just comes down to who has the better gear or is more ontop of the metagame, while other people have no interest in that, so they don't win fights or care enough to want to. For some it just triggers a flight response. Other times it's just that often attacks are opportunistic, rarely a fair fight and so for a lot of people it's just more trouble than it's worth, disrupting their enjoyment, rather than enhancing it.
Personally, I just have to be in the mood for it to enjoy it. I'm rarely in that mood. If attacked, I'll defend myself but otherwise I'm not looking for a fight.
I always try to get combat experience out of pvp. if I lose/die, figure out how I died how to counter it-if possible and can I use it next fight or sometime in the future.
I was the temid player back in the day which didn't like pvp. I died in UO joining a friends private server and that made me never want to pvp again. but I moved on and learned to enjoy the combat. I played Overwatch so much that playing Destiny 2 was a huge let down because the AI is so simple. It's been a while since I've remembered my anti-pvp days.
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@tulukaruk Games are made/ruined based on the other players. Raided in WoW with one guild and had the best time ever. Came back to it two years later and hated all the new ones I found.
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@jetah Arena PVP is fine! That's actually PVP.
Blade & Soul is one of the few MMOs I actually like fighting other players in even when I lose, because its combat system is like a fighting game and specializes in "1v1 me bruh" which is the primary arena option. Also, losing to someone else of my class (which was often because my class was the most popular one at the time) usually showed me a ridiculous super move that I can do too without any need to grind my character's level up.
Black Desert Online, on the other hand, not only has open world PVP but heavily buffs players who attack someone of even one or two levels under. BDO does not have a strict max level, but levels become exponentially slower, meaning anybody who passes around level 60 can simply rampage around the world stopping anyone else from ever reaching past level 60 because there is only one grind spot in the game for that level range.
Open world PVP is fake PVP the way that mobile games / clickers are fake games - they don't actually have gameplay or take any skill or effort. The player just watches things happen. The difference is that open world PVP is far worse because idle clickers have no way to screw other players, but parasitic open world PVP scrubs completely annihilate the game for better players who actually ARE trying to do something, even when they're a minority. It's PVP for players who neither respect themselves nor anybody else.
Any game where you can put hours or days of work into a build et al only for a twelve-year-old to casually stroll by and eliminate it in minutes is objectively not worth playing - more specifically it is by definition unplayable - and so many of these MMOS suffer from this completely avoidable and completely stupid design flaw because they're coerced and strong-armed into treating open world PVP as a requirement.
Basically, open world PVP is like cocaine - everyone is addicted, everybody suffers, and it needs to be excised as soon as possible before the government can find a way to tax it.
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@fibs said in Are you a PVP or PVE player?:
@jetah Arena PVP is fine! That's actually PVP.
Blade & Soul is one of the few MMOs I actually like fighting other players in even when I lose, because its combat system is like a fighting game and specializes in "1v1 me bruh" which is the primary arena option. Also, losing to someone else of my class (which was often because my class was the most popular one at the time) usually showed me a ridiculous super move that I can do too without any need to grind my character's level up.
Black Desert Online, on the other hand, not only has open world PVP but heavily buffs players who attack someone of even one or two levels under. BDO does not have a strict max level, but levels become exponentially slower, meaning anybody who passes around level 60 can simply rampage around the world stopping anyone else from ever reaching past level 60 because there is only one grind spot in the game for that level range.
Open world PVP is fake PVP the way that mobile games / clickers are fake games - they don't actually have gameplay or take any skill or effort. The player just watches things happen. The difference is that open world PVP is far worse because idle clickers have no way to screw other players, but parasitic open world PVP scrubs completely annihilate the game for better players who actually ARE trying to do something, even when they're a minority. It's PVP for players who neither respect themselves nor anybody else.
Any game where you can put hours or days of work into a build et al only for a twelve-year-old to casually stroll by and eliminate it in minutes is objectively not worth playing - more specifically it is by definition unplayable - and so many of these MMOS suffer from this completely avoidable and completely stupid design flaw because they're coerced and strong-armed into treating open world PVP as a requirement.
Basically, open world PVP is like cocaine - everyone is addicted, everybody suffers, and it needs to be excised as soon as possible before the government can find a way to tax it.
I played B&S but the grind got to me and other games came out. I did like their 1v1 arena though because a level 11 could compete with a max level character.
DBO sounds like it has a design flaw. this is just being taken advantage of by the players. It could be that the developers believed the population would help others reach levels instead of keeping them down. Which ironically happens in the Asian regions.
Problem with most games is the power tied to levels. You do know that you can spend hours getting gear in Fractured for 1 gank to happen and you lose it. I don't call that unplayable even by its definition. Unplayable is when the game wont load or does but you can't play, gfx messes up, UI messes up, etc. What you mentioned is figuratively unplayable.
Only open world pvp where levels can dictate power is it bad. Fractured and Crowfall wont have levels so it'll make open world pvp better.
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@jetah If Fractured is designed such that a fresh player can compete consistently with an experienced player, that's exactly the opposite problem.
Losing rare loot to a PK is not unplayable. Fractured allegedly will not permit completely impossible PK scenarios the way that BDO does, that specific rare loot is not a necessity to progress in the game the way that leveling up would be, and there are too many options for loot to assume that you will consistently be blocked from it by a PK every single time (unlike BDO's grind spot bottlenecks).
However, one of the achievement lists to upgrade a fire spell says to go to a specific location in Tartaros, and unless that location is pseudo-RNG that will subsequently become a PK hotspot which will make that aspect of the game unplayable for mass numbers of players as it will be impossible to successfully go there and fulfill the task, regardless of how gud at gaems you are. You're not a movie hero and can't just magically sidestep a full guild of scrubs all spamming AoEs on you. The only saving grace of this will be if a white knight guild is also there specifically to stop people from PKing questers, but I strongly doubt this will be in as large numbers as PKers.
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@fibs said in Are you a PVP or PVE player?:
@jetah If Fractured is designed such that a fresh player can compete consistently with an experienced player, that's exactly the opposite problem.
Losing rare loot to a PK is not unplayable. Fractured allegedly will not permit completely impossible PK scenarios the way that BDO does, that specific rare loot is not a necessity to progress in the game the way that leveling up would be, and there are too many options for loot to assume that you will consistently be blocked from it by a PK every single time (unlike BDO's grind spot bottlenecks).
However, one of the achievement lists to upgrade a fire spell says to go to a specific location in Tartaros, and unless that location is pseudo-RNG that will subsequently become a PK hotspot which will make that aspect of the game unplayable for mass numbers of players as it will be impossible to successfully go there and fulfill the task, regardless of how gud at gaems you are. You're not a movie hero and can't just magically sidestep a full guild of scrubs all spamming AoEs on you. The only saving grace of this will be if a white knight guild is also there specifically to stop people from PKing questers, but I strongly doubt this will be in as large numbers as PKers.
I doubt that the Demons will camp that spot 24/7.
I don't mind the fact that it will be hard to complete tasks on Tartaros considering that planet's ruleset. Personally, I only care about Arboreus when it comes to safety. If I need to leave, I'll just take stealth with me.
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@vengu I looked thru the Spotlights and more information was given on the tasks to upgrade spells.
You only need to complete 2 tasks to get level 1 of a spell, 4 tasks for level 2, and all 6 tasks for level 3, the final level.
So you can pick and choose which tasks to complete to get a perfectly usable version of the spell, and only need to do all six if you want to min-max, which would most likely make you a PVP player anyway. The Spotlight claims that the power increase in a spell from Lv 2 to 3 is quite minor.
So That's Okay
, but I worry whether the game will be self-defeating by making it almost pointless to upgrade spells in the first place given the investment:benefit ratio and the decreased power gap between characters to begin with. The economy will also become a mess if crafters are able to proceed too quickly.
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I am entirely PVE but I know that it usually takes PVP to keep an active community. I like how this is set up to keep everyone satisfied.
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@fibs said in Are you a PVP or PVE player?:
@jetah If Fractured is designed such that a fresh player can compete consistently with an experienced player, that's exactly the opposite problem.
Losing rare loot to a PK is not unplayable. Fractured allegedly will not permit completely impossible PK scenarios the way that BDO does, that specific rare loot is not a necessity to progress in the game the way that leveling up would be, and there are too many options for loot to assume that you will consistently be blocked from it by a PK every single time (unlike BDO's grind spot bottlenecks).
However, one of the achievement lists to upgrade a fire spell says to go to a specific location in Tartaros, and unless that location is pseudo-RNG that will subsequently become a PK hotspot which will make that aspect of the game unplayable for mass numbers of players as it will be impossible to successfully go there and fulfill the task, regardless of how gud at gaems you are. You're not a movie hero and can't just magically sidestep a full guild of scrubs all spamming AoEs on you. The only saving grace of this will be if a white knight guild is also there specifically to stop people from PKing questers, but I strongly doubt this will be in as large numbers as PKers.
it's possible a few beastkin will need that area, if that's the case, and can go in a group. worst case they ask in world/general chat for a raid so they can get it done. That's the solution, imo. if people stop treating Fractured as a single player game and get groups then it'd be better.
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@jetah I don't like zone or global chat; they're full of idiots and spam bots and they destroy anything resembling immersion. There should be a dedicated party- & guild-finding system and as little opportunity for gold nets to advertise as possible.
